Kangol non-retractable seat belt webbing orientation - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Shortsguy1 · #1 04-30-2014, 01:59 AM

Hi-
My 68 220d w115 has the early Kangol magnetic non-retracting seat belts. It has 3 point belts in the front, and waist belts in the back. I bought some replacement webbing and plan to have a local shop sew it onto all the fittings. But I am struggling with the orientation of the front belts, in particular which way they thread through the chrome hook buckle. My webbing is so thrashed that I cannot answer this from my own belts.

As best as I can tell, the seat belts were designed to go from the lower outboard anchor, then across your waist, then DOWN through the chrome hook buckle, then exit on the UNDERSIDE of the buckle and head to the shoulder-level anchor. It seems odd to me that they cross over this way at the buckle. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me?

Again (with the seat belts in use), at the chrome metal hook portion of the seat belt buckle, does the webbing that goes to shoulder-level anchor come from the top or bottom of the metal hook. Here, top means away from your belly/hip and bottom means against your belly/hip. Thanks and sorry for the difficult descriptions. I just don't want them sewn incorrectly or in an unsafe manner.

Stretch · #2 04-30-2014, 02:08 AM

Does this help?

From here =>

Vintage Kangol Seat Belt Parts available - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Shortsguy1 · #3 04-30-2014, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Does this help?

So my front belts don't have the plastic part to the left side of that webbing, which makes me think that photo may be for a waist belt. But the photo will help me ask the question differently. [For those unfamiliar, that orientation on the person's knee is how that buckle part sits on your body.]

If that plastic part to the left side of the webbing wasn't there, I guess I am asking where does the webbing most visible in the photo go? Does it go to the lower or the upper anchor? In my car, I think the webbing most visible in the photo (again ignoring that extra plastic retainer piece) would go to the lower anchor. This is different than modern cars, put perhaps is still correct.

In this photo of a "modern" belt, the part going up to your shoulder clearly comes out of the buckle on top:

Hmmmm?

Shortsguy1 · #4 04-30-2014, 07:25 AM

Okay, I feel stupid. Before I post a thread, I always do research ahead to be sure I am not wasting people's time. But in this case, my initial research missed the fairly obvious answer.

My original understanding of the webbing orientation is correct, as shown in the "To Tighten the Seat Belt" diagram here:

So I am not crazy, it clearly does cross over differently than modern belts. Those wacky Brits!

Case closed.

So the answer to Stretch's original question is, apparently, yes.

Stretch · #5 04-30-2014, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

...Those wacky Brits!
...

Whhhhhaaaaaaaatttttt???????

Tomguy · #6 04-30-2014, 10:23 AM

If I understand the question and what you mean, you're asking how does the belt fabric go: From the top A pillar into the top of the hook, out the bottom down to the mount. "Top" of the hook as in "This side up when buckling" as my old original Kangol scan you found shows

Think of the hook as a J with the belt webbing the serif on the top of the J. The top A pillar mount is the left side of the serif. This is what you were wondering, right? It wouldn't be as comfortable (Nevermind the belt would probably become undone in an accident) if the J were pulled from the other way around.

Shortsguy1 · #7 04-30-2014, 01:31 PM

Tomguy-
Yes, you understand my question right. But your description doesn't match that scan. In the Kangol directions, it appears to go from the Top A Pillar into the bottom of the hook, out the top, and then to the lower anchor. This is the opposite of what you described. You need to look at the webbing at the J hook in the "To Tighten the Seat Belt" picture, and the webbing going up to the shoulder is below the waist webbing.

Using your letter J analogy, when I look at that scan, it looks like the left side of the serif is going to the lower anchor in the scan.

So I guess I am confused again. Sorry if I am being dumb here.

ScooterABC · #8 04-30-2014, 03:27 PM

You are not being dumb. First of all, the picture is showing a different model Kangol from that used in the Mercedes. It's showing a Kangol that is used in British cars and has an entirely different webbing. For their purposes, the instructions for use are the same since they assume you are not installing the belts.

Assume that you hang the belt on the B-pillar when not being worn. To do that, the J-hook needs to have the shoulder webbing on the top of the lap webbing when worn so that when you hang up the belt on the B-pillar the webbing from the shoulder and lap won't get tangled up. So my take on this is that the picture is wrong because there is no way to hang the belt otherwise.

That's my 2 cents opinion.

On a related note, be VERY wary of purchasing "seat belt webbing" from an unknown source. Often the sources are using webbing rated for tents and backpacks and NOT seatbelts.

Shortsguy1 · #9 04-30-2014, 04:40 PM

Thanks everyone for all the help.

ScooterABC:
This is the webbing I bought (in black). Would you trust it?

2" Seatbelt Webbing 4 Bar Nice Colors 10 Yard Rolls 30 ft 4 Band | eBay

It would be somewhat criminal to sell backpack webbing as seatbelt webbing, but who knows these days. Thanks for giving me one more thing to worry about!

ScooterABC · #10 04-30-2014, 04:45 PM

Honestly I can't say if I would trust it. The guy who does my belts when I have them made for ebay doesn't trust most of the people who sell webbing on ebay. It seems like there should be a spec sheet or something for the product he is selling if it is rated for that type of use but I really don't know what to say.

Shortsguy1 · #11 04-30-2014, 08:43 PM

I contacted that ebay vendor to see if they were certain their webbing satisfied seatbelt requirements, and this was their response:

"Hi. We have been selling seatbelt webbing since the year 2000 and we buy it from a place that deals with just seatbelt webbing. I never had a complaint about it. If it wasn't seatbelt webbing I would state that, If you check my listings you can see the different webbing we do sell. Because we sell regular nylon, cotton and elastic webbing.
Thank You"

They then signed their name and provided their phone number. Clearly, they could say anything, but it seemed to me like an honest response.

Still a little confused about the routing of the webbing, but oh well.

ScooterABC · #12 04-30-2014, 10:40 PM

I'm not sure you could hope for a much better response, although I'm not an expert. I would trust a seller who responded in that matter I think.

re: the webbing, it is rather important to get it right the first time as re-sewing is kind of a pain, at least it is for me because I ship them out to have them done. It's really best if you have a good sample to start with. If you don't, perhaps I can loan you one or something. (a bad used sample I mean).

Tomguy · #13 05-01-2014, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Tomguy-
Yes, you understand my question right. But your description doesn't match that scan. In the Kangol directions, it appears to go from the Top A Pillar into the bottom of the hook, out the top, and then to the lower anchor. This is the opposite of what you described. You need to look at the webbing at the J hook in the "To Tighten the Seat Belt" picture, and the webbing going up to the shoulder is below the waist webbing.

Using your letter J analogy, when I look at that scan, it looks like the left side of the serif is going to the lower anchor in the scan.

So I guess I am confused again. Sorry if I am being dumb here.

FYI, the only pictures showing the J hook itself (the pure chrome piece) is the first set on the very top. I assumed this is the piece you were referring to and not the plastic with magnet "Clapper" piece. The "To tighten" and "To slacken" shows only the clapper and not the chrome J piece. For that routing, the belt goes from the transmission tunnel side into the bottom of the clapper and then out the top. Sadly, in all the pictures I took of my 108, I can't find any closeups of the belts.

Shortsguy1 · #14 05-01-2014, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomguy

FYI, the only pictures showing the J hook itself (the pure chrome piece) is the first set on the very top. I assumed this is the piece you were referring to and not the plastic with magnet "Clapper" piece. The "To tighten" and "To slacken" shows only the clapper and not the chrome J piece. For that routing, the belt goes from the transmission tunnel side into the bottom of the clapper and then out the top. Sadly, in all the pictures I took of my 108, I can't find any closeups of the belts.

I was talking about the metal J, not the Clapper. I know it isn't explicitly in the diagram that I keep referring to, but it obviously is hiding there. I have decided to follow your diagram because it does match my remnants the best. I recognize this is the opposite of most of the advice in this thread, but I realized something important when getting my belts ready for sewing. The chrome J is not bound by sewing on both ends. One end is sewn and the other is just stapled to a plastic bit. I will install the belts without restapling the plastic bit initially. If I hate my decision, I can reverse it easily.

Thanks everyone for all the help on such a small, but important detail.

Tomguy · #15 05-01-2014, 08:58 PM

Do you only have lap belts? The chrome J isn't sewed in at all. It "Flops" freely on the entire length of the webbing. If you look at the first pic on the scan, the webbing goes into the left of the "J" (or the "top" as shown in that pic), and comes out the bottom, that top webbing connects to the A pillar.