lennox furnace model G12D2E-82-8 issues - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

barry12345 · #31 02-07-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Incorrect. An old furnace is approximately 35% or more LESS efficient than a modern unit, and brings with it safety risks such as a cracked old heat exchanger. In a single cold winter, you could spend over $1000 more heating with an old piece of junk than with a new furnace depending on the size of house. My high efficiency unit is in its 5th season and all I've had to do is air filters and replaced a piece of plastic tubing that was leaking water. VS an old unit it has paid for itself twice over just in the fuel savings at this point. The control boards are not that unreliable, mine even has it right in the box with the burners and draft blower and its been just fine. Higher end furnaces put the electronics in their own closed compartment so they are even more protected.

DIY on the HE units isn't even that hard, just need to know a little more about basic electronics. They are no more sophisticated than the auto-klima boards on our old MB's. You can buy a decent brand new HE furnace for less than $1700 that will give 15+ years of service....its a no brainer.

Mr .Hunters furnace I suspect is located on the first floor. Time till heat exchanger goes should be much longer. I would expect a furnace in that situation to have twice the life expectancy of one in the average basement environment.

kerry · #32 02-07-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

I do not want it to sound like I am being tight. Years ago I just found it is not how many dollars you make instead it is how you spend them that makes the difference. I suspect the economy would suffer a serious setback if everyone did this as well.

The problem with this attitude is it became habitual. As the need decreased and disappeared I am still at it. I fix/repair/replace everything we own pretty well by these methods. I suspect you do much the same. I am also in a casual network where we exchange services and parts with people of similar charactaristics.

With your current pain and concerns I would probably take the fastest and easiest path for this one though. Then when better go find that furnace for 2-300 dollars or less.Two to three years old should be fine.

Since you are yet not feeling that good I an going to throw in a hopefully funny story about how cheap I am as a distraction. While getting my hair cut the barber asked me if I could locate double edged razor blades somewhere cheap as he could not. He said he would give me haircuts in exchange for them.

So we cut a deal. He suggested the almost free haircuts for them. I have to buy the blades. Another substantial supply of gillete double edged blades arrived from India this morning. Both in the deal are happy. Essentially both parties get what they want.

I think he is also reselling them. Whatever my haircuts are about three dollars each now. Meaningless in the grand scheme of life but cumulatively all of the various arrangements probably effectively double my income overall.

I concur with virtually all of that. My exception is with haircuts. My wife has been cutting my hair for 30 yrs. That's a lot of money we have saved. Probably the price of 2 or 3 vehicles we have owned.

pawoSD · #33 02-07-2014, 12:59 PM

My wife does my haircuts too.

whunter · #34 02-07-2014, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

Mr .Hunters furnace I suspect is located on the first floor. Time till heat exchanger goes should be much longer. I would expect a furnace in that situation to have twice the life expectancy of one in the average basement environment.

You are correct, center of the first floor.

.

pawoSD · #35 02-07-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

You are correct, center of the first floor.

.

Michigan basement?

whunter · #36 02-07-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Michigan basement?

38 inch crawl space and semi finished attic.

I may add a Michigan basement one day, or jack the house for a 24 foot drive in with hoists.

.

whunter · #37 02-08-2014, 07:58 AM

After 20 hours of operation with the new blower motor installed..

I am happy to report the furnace is running an average of 15 minutes every hour.

I suspect this failing motor at least partially explains the DIRTY power issue, that has fried many 110v devices ?

Gosh, could the damaged motor contribute to winter electric bills averaging $300.00+ USD per month ?

.

barry12345 · #38 02-08-2014, 11:51 AM

Time to check for low household voltage. Motor failure chances grow with lowered voltage. If not that and it is just not a Christmas season type bill the defrost timer on the refrigerator may be jammed. What other type of 110 volt things have issues?

Any clues about the reason for the higher electrical bill would be related to your average previous bills. Low supply voltage also increases electrical draw..

There are several possibilities of why that blower fan motor may have expired besides wear and tear. Including the flakey temperature switch not allowing it to get a clean start when on the start windings. Or staying on the start windings too long.

If it is not one thing it is usually something else pretty frequently in my experience with life.. Including tax the kilowatt hour cost just accelerated another 3.5 cents here last month. now it is at about .15 cents per kilowatt. Highest rate in Canada I suspect. Furnace oil is better than 5.00 a gallon and natural gas has had 3-5 price increases this winter.

We heat 2000 square feet with an add on wood furnace. Costs about 800.00 a year. We reside three miles out of town so property taxes are about 1K a year instead of 5-7K for a similar house in town. That to me is the predominate reason there are so many unsold houses in town. The newer municipal town tax rates will alone drive prices lower in my opinion. To add to the peoples mysery is the water is metered in town and I think there is also a sewer charge separately. To me it is almost like being reduced to renting your own house currently there.

Replaced the television with a 60 inch smart Samsung this Christmas. It runs so cool that the savings in electrical draw will probably pay for it several times over its lifespan in comparison to the old set. Running your hand along the top after several hours running it still feels to be at ambient temperatures. There is only one warm spot about halfway down the back and it is only warm and small. The cost of living keeps rising and we compensate in many ways. This is an old habit of ours from a time that it was necessity. Sometimes it enables commercial items like the under counter led lighting that took sometime to finalise. I would turn it into a commercial thing except there is our ages to consider and the need for the money is not there. So I will probably sell the ideals as package as I have done before with other things. One thing always leads to another.

I better get out of here and get that heat exchanger installation completed that I am working on now.

whunter · #39 02-08-2014, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

Time to check for low household voltage. Motor failure chances grow with lowered voltage. If not that and it is just not a Christmas season type bill the defrost timer on the refrigerator may be jammed. What other type of 110 volt things have issues?

Any clues about the reason for the higher electrical bill would be related to your average previous bills. Low supply voltage also increases electrical draw..

There are several possibilities of why that blower fan motor may have expired besides wear and tear. Including the flaky temperature switch not allowing it to get a clean start when on the start windings. Or staying on the start windings too long.

If it is not one thing it is usually something else pretty frequently in my experience with life.. Including tax the kilowatt hour cost just accelerated another 3.5 cents here last month. now it is at about .15 cents per kilowatt. Highest rate in Canada I suspect. Furnace oil is better than 5.00 a gallon and natural gas has had 3-5 price increases this winter.

We heat 2000 square feet with an add on wood furnace. Costs about 800.00 a year. We reside three miles out of town so property taxes are about 1K a year instead of 5-7K for a similar house in town. That to me is the predominate reason there are so many unsold houses in town. The newer municipal town tax rates will alone drive prices lower in my opinion. To add to the peoples mysery is the water is metered in town and I think there is also a sewer charge separately. To me it is almost like being reduced to renting your own house currently there.

Replaced the television with a 60 inch smart Samsung this Christmas. It runs so cool that the savings in electrical draw will probably pay for it several times over its lifespan in comparison to the old set. Running your hand along the top after several hours running it still feels to be at ambient temperatures. There is only one warm spot about halfway down the back and it is only warm and small. The cost of living keeps rising and we compensate in many ways. This is an old habit of ours from a time that it was necessity. Sometimes it enables commercial items like the under counter led lighting that took sometime to finalize. I would turn it into a commercial thing except there is our ages to consider and the need for the money is not there. So I will probably sell the ideals as package as I have done before with other things. One thing always leads to another.

I better get out of here and get that heat exchanger installation completed that I am working on now.

FYI:
* Refrigerator failed, and was replaced with factory NEW, winter 2011, and again winter 2012..
Refrigerator has been on a dedicated uninterruptible power supply since 2012.

.

barry12345 · #40 02-08-2014, 09:42 PM

. By dedicated I assume on it's own electrical circuit and that is also the current electrical code. Reduces circuit loss to other things if they draw substantially. Does not guarantee good voltage though if the house supply is low. Measure both legs for voltage. You do not want a semi floating neutral allowing more voltage on one leg than the other. Both sides should be equal. Too many people just measure across the two legs and 220-240 is all they mentally see forgetting that you are not referencing each leg to neutral.

A mechanical rotating defrost timer can become locked in the constant on scenario with any frost free refrigerator. Does not have to be a particularily age related failure.

Sometime when it is practical turn off all your other circuit breakers. Keep an eye on the electrical meter every fifteen minutes if it is moving. Look at four times. If it has continued to move those four times actually even just three times is probably enough. The defrost timer is jammed. Unless you have some type of current draw instrument that you plug the fridge into the first test will do.

If initially the meter is not moving the first time then the test is complete. It cannot be the defrosting heater locked on. Plus the refrigerator compressor is off at that time.

You are probably not going to like what one of our daughters said about two to four years ago. She managed a large furniture and appliance store then.

Basically that the old label north American fridges are junk now. Dad if mom ever wants another fridge buy one from the orient unless things change.

We use a non frost free fridge with no freezer compartment currently. Using a separate freezer for anything that has to stay frozen.

Dudesky · #41 02-09-2014, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

After 20 hours of operation with the new blower motor installed..

I am happy to report the furnace is running an average of 15 minutes every hour.

I suspect this failing motor at least partially explains the DIRTY power issue, that has fried many 110v devices ?

Gosh, could the damaged motor contribute to winter electric bills averaging $300.00+ USD per month ?

.

If it was running most of the time, yes.
Sounds like you have some electric company line issues.

whunter · #42 02-09-2014, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

. By dedicated I assume on it's own electrical circuit and that is also the current electrical code. Reduces circuit loss to other things if they draw substantially. Does not guarantee good voltage though if the house supply is low. Measure both legs for voltage. You do not want a semi floating neutral allowing more voltage on one leg than the other. Both sides should be equal. Too many people just measure across the two legs and 220-240 is all they mentally see forgetting that you are not referencing each leg to neutral.

A mechanical rotating defrost timer can become locked in the constant on scenario with any frost free refrigerator. Does not have to be a particularly age related failure.

Sometime when it is practical turn off all your other circuit breakers. Keep an eye on the electrical meter every fifteen minutes if it is moving. Look at four times. If it has continued to move those four times actually even just three times is probably enough. The defrost timer is jammed. Unless you have some type of current draw instrument that you plug the fridge into the first test will do.

If initially the meter is not moving the first time then the test is complete. It cannot be the defrosting heater locked on. Plus the refrigerator compressor is off at that time.

You are probably not going to like what one of our daughters said about two to four years ago. She managed a large furniture and appliance store then.

Basically that the old label north American fridges are junk now. Dad if mom ever wants another fridge buy one from the orient unless things change.

We use a non frost free fridge with no freezer compartment currently. Using a separate freezer for anything that has to stay frozen.

I will check this out asap.

.

barry12345 · #43 02-09-2014, 12:52 PM

If there is a problem and they are not all that unusual really. Plus to be absolutely clear. With a semi floating neutral you can experience say 140 volts on one leg and 90 volts or so on the other for example.

Normally both legs to neutral should be about the same voltage. If oxidation is present at a neutrals terminal it can change the individual legs voltage with it's resistance that may also vary with heating or loading. You want to measure that voltage with some electrical load on one side. Just a 1000-1500 watt 110 volt electrical heater plugged in anywhere in the house or some equivelant is fine,.

In the old days I never broke the neutral into two wires at the meter socket. Always just stripped the white or neutral enterance wire that contacted that area and fed one piece of wire down through so the neutral was never in two pieces going through the meter socket.

Then I got older with more contorted installations using aluminium wire. Was just a little too hard to do it that way so I break the neutral now on occasion. Personally I still do not like the practice.

This practice has resulted in oxidation problems in meter sockets causing some issues with older ones I did not install so far. Oxidation at a neutral termination can cause the semi floating neutral.

The local hydro people do not seem to care if I break meter seals on my properties. They just replace them when they notice. I think they are well aware that I do not steal electricity is a help.

Since you have other troubles or at least suspected ones. The fridge will probably check out okay. To me though with my limited abilities and knowledge. The fridge is always the first thing to eliminate if higher than normal power bills are present. Then you move on to other things.

I am not a working electrician and technically you need a licence here. So I just get a friendly electrician to get whatever permits are required and do just what I own or am building.

The electrician feels that I am competent enough and will cause him no grief. Other than that people that have heard I can run down problems call me a couple of times a year on average.

If your wife for example ever claims to get a slight tingle off of an appliance always take is seriously. Not from the aspect of getting electrocuted it just indicates something is going on that should be examined.

There are some much more competent members than myself on site that will also help you run down any electrical issues.

lorainfurniture · #44 02-09-2014, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

I will check this out asap.

.

If your fridge has a failed defrost timer, the unit will fail within a day or so. Maybe a few days in the winter months.

There is a piece in a freezer called a defrost limiter that shuts the heater off when a certain temp is reached. Basically if there is any problem with the ref, it will not work properly

There are still many domestic refs that work on the mechanical defrost timer.

pawoSD · #45 02-10-2014, 10:12 AM

The furnace should be on its down dedicated 15A circuit and probably has a 10A fuse at the power switch on the furnace itself, thus it should have never been able to draw more than 1200 watts max without blowing it. High power bills can come from a lot of things. Do you use any space heaters and are all your house lights incandescent? I would go around the house with a good multimeter and check voltages at all outlets. Anything in your garage that might be sapping power?

With the state of D-troit infrastructure I'd not be surprised if the power coming to your house is very unstable and not clean.