Drove a 240D 4sp today... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

The Warden · #1 03-10-2003, 12:06 AM

Hello! Tim The Taxman on this board donated his '83 240D to the Sea Scout unit that I work with, and I drove it to the scout leader's house (about an hour and a half's drive, from Antioch to south San Jose).

Very interesting experience...it took me a little bit to get used to how the car felt (seeing the speedo to the right of straight-up at 65 was weird, and the gearshift lever wasn't original, so it took a bit of trying to figure out where reverse was), not to mention figuring out the manual climate controls. All in all, it wasn't bad, but to be honest, although I liked the manual transmission, overall I prefer my 300D. I just need to find a 5sp to put in my 123...

Thanks again to Tim for the donation; car got there without a hitch.

Keep on truckin'...

#2 03-10-2003, 07:23 AM

If you were to crawl under the hood to do like operations in both cars, like say change starters, you would come away with a distinct dislike for repair and maintenance of the 300D vs. the 240D. Even though these two cars are the same except for one extra cylinder, working on the 240D is like working on a Model A while the five cylinder is a huge PITA.

As long as you don't have to do your own work, you'll enjoy the 300 just fine as compared to the 240. The difference the extra cylinder makes in these two cars from a repair and maintenance standpoint is staggering.

Have a great day,

Stevo · #3 03-10-2003, 08:13 PM

warden

I think driving a stick shift diesel takes a little getting used to. Your used to putting it in "ahead" like on the boats, and just going

..... Maybe its just me but getting a "smooth" shift into 2nd is a challenge with my "78 & 9" , not like any gasser I have had. And like Larry said working on it is allot easier.

Good for you on the sea Scout thing.

leathermang · #4 03-10-2003, 08:23 PM

I think we should stop talking about them being so nice and easy to work on .... this is clearly making more people look to acquire them... which means fewer available for those of us needing second cars or parts cars... etc... OK ?

At the very least , be sure to include how you have to avoid some highway on ramps and that some people make fun of you for driving them...

rwthomas1 · #5 03-10-2003, 08:51 PM

You want something thats a real pain to wrench on? Try a Fox bodied 5.0 mustang. They're a real nightmare compared to a 5cyl turbo. RT

The Warden · #6 03-10-2003, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stevo
I think driving a stick shift diesel takes a little getting used to. Your used to putting it in "ahead" like on the boats, and just going ..... Maybe its just me but getting a "smooth" shift into 2nd is a challenge with my "78 & 9" , not like any gasser I have had. And like Larry said working on it is allot easier.

heh heh heh Actually, I don't know what putting the throttles in "ahead" and going is like; my place on the boat (here's a picture of her, BTW) is in the engine room sucking up diesel exhaust

I may not get to throttle the engines up anymore (our old boat had an EOT, so on that boat, I did get to shift and throttle; ohhh I miss those days...), but the thrill of firing up a 900 horsepower dual-turbo Cummins 1710 is pretty cool unto itself.

Also, for the record, it wasn't the first diesel stick I've driven...just the first Mercedes diesel stick. My truck has a 6.9l International-Harvester diesel, along with a 4 speed maual transmission; I used to have an '80 IH Scout with a 3.2l inline-6 turbo diesel that also had a 4 speed manual. Once I had the shift pattern figured out, the only thing I had difficulty getting used to with the 240D was the long wind-up between gears; the first couple times I shifted from 1st to 2nd, I lugged the engine

After that, I decided to start upshifting right before the appropiate dot on the speedo, and did okay.

After I realized that I was lugging the engine, shifting was pretty smooth...

BTW, as far as I know, there are exactly 3 people who have driven my truck who are capable of shifting her perfectly smoothly...one of whom is no longer alive.

It's easy to drive (impossible to stall out), but (to most) it's very difficult to drive "right".

Actually, funny enough, the hardest thing to get used to on the 240D was the throttle pedal. On my 300D, there's a fair amount of resistance on the pedal; I have to keep a bit of pressure on it to keep at speed (can get a bit fatiguing in the long term, especially 'cause the cruise control currently doesn't work). On the 240D, there was hardly any resistance at all...it almost felt like I wasn't pushing anything; either my 300D's throttle linkage needs some serious greasing, or the 240D's was missing a spring (or maybe both?). I also think that either the clutch wasn't quite adjusted right or had very little life left, as the "grab point" was almost at the top of the pedal's travel.

I suppose I should re-phrase part of my first post; I wouldn't mind owning a 240D manual, but I don't wanna get rid of my 300D either.

Quote:

You want something thats a real pain to wrench on? Try a Fox bodied 5.0 mustang. They're a real nightmare compared to a 5cyl turbo. RT

Could be worse...I've mentioned this before, but a couple of weeks ago, I changed out the spark plugs on my mom's '94 Pontiac Grand Prix (3.1l V-6, front wheel drive). I had to undo two engine mounts and take a crowbar to rock the engine towards the front of the car to have a hope at getting to the rear plugs...

Maybe I'm real lucky in that I haven't needed to do any real engine work on the 300D (need to run some Diesel Purge and change the engine mounts and air cleaner mounts, though), but the work that I have done, I've found to be quite easy in comparison to anything else I've had.

THe 617 may be hard to work on compared to the 616, but IMHO it's still superior (in terms of ease to work on, as well as in other fields) as compared to most other engines out there.

leathermang · #7 03-11-2003, 06:20 AM

So, did that Scout Master just get lucky ,,, or are they going to auction off that 240 ?

#8 03-11-2003, 06:43 AM

RT,

In the eighties, my Toy was a late '85 5.0 Mustang with a five speed. It was a real kick to drive. Now THAT car made it worth the PITA to work on it. The V8 and the stiff suspension, turned a cheap built little car into something with power and was really fun.

Now compare that kick in the tail by putting more engine in the same car to adding one cylinder along with an automatic transmission to the 123. In the case of the 123 normally aspirated models, the cylinder adds a theoretical 25% torque increase but then you give that increase back to the stupid automatic. In my book, this does NOT warrant the huge extra PITA to work on it. The V8 in the Mustang does give you plenty in return.

Remember when I talk about the PITA of the 300D I am comparing it to a four cylinder with a manual transmission.

BTW, my Mustang was the last of the Holley carbureted cars and the first of the stainless tubing headers and roller cam. It was a GREAT car for the money. It was also 100% trouble free for the 60,000 miles that I owned it. The preventive maintenance that I did was plugs, belt, air filters and frequent oil changes. You could change the serpentine belt in about 3 minutes using nothing more than a big screwdriver or a tire tool.

Have a great day,

300SDog · #9 03-11-2003, 10:03 AM

Is the Euro 5-spd. really that much better than standard 4-spd for the 240D?

From experience owning both 4 and 5 speed Moto Guzzi Ambassador/Eldorado motorcylces.... I'd say the 4 speed has wider gear ratios, requiring fewer shifts at normal driving speeds.

The trade off occurs in top end performance, where 5th acts like an overdrive - but does the 240D have enough power to push the car beyond 90mph where regular 4-spd redlines?

No question the 300D could handle 5 gears, but what about the 240?

The Warden · #10 03-11-2003, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leathermang
So, did that Scout Master just get lucky ,,, or are they going to auction off that 240 ?

Greg, to be honest, I don't know. Ridge was talking to Tim about buying it; Tim had already committed to donating the car, so he gave Ridge my contact info. In addition, the skipper had talked to a couple of people who were interested in buying it (this was before I picked it up). However, after he drove it around, he had a smile on his face and was talking about giving it to his wife for a daily driver.

For that, Robin's really p/o'ed at me...she was hoping that no one was going to want to buy the car form the ship, so that she could raise up the $$ to buy it herself...

Quote:

Originally posted by 240DieselDog
Is the Euro 5-spd. really that much better than standard 4-spd for the 240D?

From experience owning both 4 and 5 speed Moto Guzzi Ambassador/Eldorado motorcylces.... I'd say the 4 speed has wider gear ratios, requiring fewer shifts at normal driving speeds.

The trade off occurs in top end performance, where 5th acts like an overdrive - but does the 240D have enough power to push the car beyond 90mph where regular 4-spd redlines?

No question the 300D could handle 5 gears, but what about the 240?

I guess the big question that raises is whether the 5 speed is a 4 speed with an overdrive gear added, or if it's a completely different tranny.

I like manual transmissions (although my back occasionally doesn't

), but I don't think I could financially justify swapping a 4 speed into my 300D...a 5 speed, OTOH...I wonder what kinda mileage a 617 would get on the freeway with an OD? Hmm...

dieseldude · #11 03-11-2003, 02:21 PM

Having now driven a 4spd 240D for a couple weeks, I'd have to say an Overdrive gear could be nice - but even nicer in a 300D where the extra displacement would be a kick. I doubt it would raise the top-speed dramatically in the 240D, but the lower rpm's in the 70-80mph range would be nice for the noise-level. It sure does love cruising at 70 though - there's still power to pass.

The owner's manual says top speed in the W115 is 86mph - seems like the motor is durable enough to handle an increase into the 90's a OD gear would add without hurting it too much. Plus the fuel economy would be great in those higher cruising speeds....

Regards,
- Ryan

Stevo · #12 03-11-2003, 04:53 PM

Warden

Nice link. seeing that delta country gives me lots of flash backs,

Those are nice looking boats. Good duty in the summer when its hot up there.

I guess the shifting thing I was talking about is particuler to MB bacause I have owned a couple other brands of diesel car and dont remember anything odd about shifting, maybe my linkage needs adjusting.

240DieselDog

I think the first 4 gears of the 4 speed tranny are the same as the 5 speed. When I drive my wifes 4 speed then get into my 5 speed, I can not tell any difference. When I get out on the freeway then comes the difference. At 50 or 60 mph the 5th gear is like overdrive. I really like the 5 speed and its, no doubt, nice for the FAST lane. Most of the time I am content to cruse at 65 or so and the 4 speed is just as nice as far as I,m concerned.

A friend found a nice euro 4 speed 300 D last week, thats a nice car to drive. Its the only W123 I have ever seen that does not have a vacuum locking system.

rwthomas1 · #13 03-11-2003, 05:04 PM

Larry,
Oh I heartily agree that a 5.0 is a real bargain for the fun factor. A hint to the guys here: If you want a "toy" car buy it for your wife. My "wifes" car in the 90's was an 88 5.0 convertible, motorsport suspension/springs/brakes, Flowmaster, Paxton, injectors/cam/MAF upgrade, etc. Lots of fun but could be a bear to work on. Had a problem with premature rear tire wear too.... RT

leathermang · #14 03-11-2003, 05:20 PM

I think Stevo is correct about the 4 speed gearing.... at first the 5th gear was an add on to the 4 speed case, later it was in one unit.... mine does love to go 70 and more... seems to want to go faster....not something you expect in a car with an engine people make fun of lacking in power...

Holson Adi · #15 03-11-2003, 05:23 PM

I would really love to have a 5-speed transmission with overdrive for my 300CD. It's a great car at 85+mph even. Too bad the engine sounds more like an old DC-3's engine on full throttle or something (not that I've heard a DC-3s engine...)

I was so happy to find a 240D 4-speed on autotrader (local) last time that seemed nice for a good price. Called up the owner then he said.. "don't i wanna sell the diesel anymore"