Yes try running on a bottle of fuel. Your whole problem could have been something other than good fuel pumped into the tank. Try to fuel only at higher volume places.

One problem is smaller diesel volume places are supplied by bulk carriers. Between loads of different products sometimes they are not cleaned out well. You can get whatever it was that was not cleaned out. I have even found close to bunker oil in cars. Or what it seemed like. Places that sell a lot of diesel will not take supply from other than dedicated tank carriers. That's why in general large truck stops are the best places to fuel.

It also could be a lot of algie and water. I never see it as far north as we live. So identification by me is impossible. Getting water pumped into a car is far from scarce. You can never be absolutely positive but there is no reasonable way engine oil or whatever it is. Got into that filter other than from the fuel tank. Do not run the engine on it.

You will want to change out or remove and flush out the secondary fuel filter as well. That black stuff will be in it. Even before running on a bottle . Remember the bright side as well . You do not have a cracked head or blown head gasket.

I was able to spend some time on the '87 over the weekend. I cant say I'm any closer to knowing what is wrong.

I did the diesel purge thing inserting the input and return lines into a clear bottle, it really had no effect. smoke stayed constant, returned fuel was essentially unchanged staying light green until it was almost gone. Engine noise did not get better or worse.

I read in a thread that cracking the lines open one at a time could provide some insight in narrowing which injectors are the source of the issue. Any line I cracked open made the engine lumber, from which I infer no one injector is a major contributor to the issue.

Thinking I was on the wrong track, I started looking into the turbo. I though if I lost an oil seal I could be pumping oil into the air inlet side causing the smoke, engine noise and power loss. I removed the inlet crossover to bypass the turbo to see if that made a difference. While there was some oil in the crossover, no oil was pumping out of the turbo, and having the inlet side open to fresh air made no difference. just made the sound of the air popping into the inlet louder.

Not really sure what a good next step is. Is there another test I can do to validate that its the injectors that are the root cause? If not, I figure my next step is to plan on investing in the injectors. Remove, pop test (which I do not have... ), rebuild or purchase, balance, install: feels like $300-400 hoping it fixes it. I'm ok with that, I'd just prefer to be reasonably sure I''m headed down the right path.

This is my experience on the om603 engine. I don't think you have a crack head. Cracked head will overheat big time. This is what I would do. Need to determine the health of the engine in general.

1) run the car until the upper radiator hose is rock hard, making sure there is no overheating. If it doesn't get hard then the cooling system has a leak. Leave it overnight and squeeze it. If it is still rock hard then there may be a gasket leak.

2) remove all injectors and pop test them. Making sure the spray pattern and open pressure is ok.

3) check compression while engine still hot. However, I find hot and cold engine doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

4) turbo leaking oil will give white smoke. Lot and lot of it, like a chain smoking machine.

5) loud engine noise is subjective. Take the serpentine belt off and listen again.

6) check blowby by removing oil cap. You should feel cap is sucked in, a negative pressure vacuum feel caused by the turbo. If it is positive pressure then bad blowby.

Good luck.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

Obscure test? If it smokes like you describe from start up. To verify it is or is not coolant. I might consider draining the coolant and starting the engine. Safe to run it a minute.

There is also a failure of the head gasket typical on these engines. Between the oil passage feed to the head and the number one cylinder. I could see this producing smoke but not additional noise. Simple test is to remove the number one injector and see if oil gets blown out on cranking the engine.

You kind of added stress to the situation when you punched the throttle. I cannot see a batch of injectors all of a sudden failing. I could be wrong of course.

To me the increase in engine noise is the unexpected component. I do not think the engine could jump timing. But if it did could light valve contact with the pistons be the noise? Cam and damper marks are not hard to check. I just had been thinking that any leakage to the cylinders Especially where you got a drop in testing the individual cylinders by disconnecting their individual fuel feeds. Plus the excessive noise did not stop. During any individual test. Could not produce this abnormal noise from the engines suspected head issues.

After I was wrong about the black primary fuel filter. I live in an igloo in eastern Canada and none of my pre filters have ever looked other than fairly clear. I almost felt that I owed you one. As a Canadian I have to say something of a sterio type thing as in general I do not drink beer. As a result I am fighting deportation.

You can jump one tooth with a lightly stretched timing chain and will get no noise. All bets are off with an old stretched timing chain if it jumps off one tooth. This is an attempt to give some rational to the possibility. I may be wrong twice.

^^^X2 on all of this^^^

#6 shouldn't necessarily have vacuum (the turbo is making no boost at idle), but you shouldn't have any positive pressure coming out the valve cover. Loosen the oil filler cap and leave it sitting on the opening, it shouldn't move if the engine is healthy.

__________________
Current stable:
1995 E320 149K (Nancy)
1983 500SL 120K (SLoL)

Black Sheep:
1985 524TD 167K (TotalDumpster™)

Gone but not forgotten:
1986 300SDL (RIP)
1991 350SD
1991 560SEL
1990 560SEL
1986 500SEL Euro (Rusted to nothing at 47K!)

I'd get the fungus i the primary filter sorted out before I spent a dime on new injectors ~ been there, did that and ruined freshly rebuilt injectors .

If the car was free I'd be willing to throw quite a bit of $ at it as these are superb drivers when running well .

__________________
-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

I'm not convinced I have an algae problem. If I did, I'd agree. Iv'e had algae issues with my w126's , and they manifested as starvation by clogging tank and pre filters. When I ran this one off the straight diesel purge, there was no improvement.

This one was good runner. Hopefully is again soon.

I checked the oil cap for blowby. Loosened fully, the cap rests still on the valve cover with no movement. Removed no mist at all. I didn't think to try reving the engine to see if I get vacuum. maybe tomorrow.


I ran it on the highway for 5 miles or so to let it get warm. Got to what I'd call ~83C and stayed there. Upon return the upper hose was more firm than when it was cold, but I wouldn't call it hard. It yielded to about 1/2 - 2/3 the hose diameter with a solid pinch with thumb and forefinger.

I'll check the hose again in the morning.

I did notice that the turbo lag is accentuated at slow speeds, taking a half second to respond to flooring it. And the extra juice needed to get it up driveway left a nasty black soot mark on the cement. It blew or washed away with the light rain we had today.

Thanks for everyone's input so far!

There's clearly black stuff in the clear plastic intake screen so you deciding there's no issue there is just wearing blinders .

A dirty filter is always a bad thing .

__________________
-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

I'm not sure I get your point. I ran off of strait diesel purge and the same symptoms held thru the whole bottle, and stayed the same after I switched back to the tank. The fuel source had no effect.

I'd argue a dirty filter is better at filtering than when its new. Its only when its pores are so full that flow is inhibited that it becomes a problem.

That said its easy enough to change the filters I'll be able to gauge how quickly they fill up.


I tested the upper hose this morning and was soft.

My thoughts on a dirty filter. The pressure differential increases. Perhaps forcing more through it beyond some pressure. Opinions will vary of course. I also agree that a dirty filter will filter more out until the pressure differential really increases.

Any signifigant sudden increase in engine noise to me is important to locate. Generally I will not drive on it. Well if it is a sudden exhaust leak is one exception of course. Or I can identify the issue and determine that no further harm will occur by doing so.

Also if funds are limited. Change out a filter still working. Put the old one it in a sealed container and in the trunk. That way if your filter ever obstructs on the road. You have a usable spare to get going again. Fuel in general has to be cleaner today as long as you watch where you fill. So people no longer carry fuel filters for diesels in general. Yet it still does little harm to have one. Even a mechanic may have to wait for a replacement in many areas to come into his parts supplier. These cars are getting just too old to assume they will be in stock still everywhere.

This post is off subject as I just do not know what your problem is. You seem to have had a very sudden loss of power combined with a lot more engine noise. Just after accelerating hard. The noise remains. Yet on a power drop test all cylinders seem active. If the exhaust appears normal I would not check the injectors first. Even though they could remain suspect. Actually in a way you did test them. Any injector you loosened if bad. The excess engine noise should have decreased.

Old engine with perhaps old timing chain with sudden noise as you describe. Probability of it is not great yet it could fit the description. Usually the timing chains just break on these engines. So easy to eliminate one jumping as a possibility. You fortunately have hydraulic lifters that allow some give as well.

At top dead center the marks on the cam and harmonic balancer must line up. On their marks. If they are way off just turn the engine over 360 degrees one time more.

On one stroke or the other they must be on. Turn clockwise from the front. Or the hydraulic chain tensioner may have failed producing a lot more noise than normal. Combined with a one tooth jump somehow. A piece of a chain guide that broke off could do something like this. You could only have one injector fail in your scenario. Yet the noise remains when each injector was disabled. It is almost mathematically impossible for more than one injector of a mechanical type to fail at the same time.

A one tooth timing chain jump combined with a worn timing chain could equal light valve contact noise. It could also produce smoke and loss of power. Or no additional smoke. Depending on the engine design. Two teeth off on cam timing jams the these vintage engines up creating valve train damage and inability to run at all. Where a one tooth jump and existing chain wear could produce light valve contact. Plus the sudden increase in noise.

Believe it or not this could also be caused by a bad fuel filter. They have fooled more than one person. I am not a working mechanic but some on site have been or still are. Their intuition in general has developed over the years. Where I have little in comparison.

A timing belt slip had occurred to me, but someone convinced me a slip at while accelerating would certainly been a catastrophic and immediate failure.

I'll try swapping out the fuel filters then check out the timing marks.

The 603 series of engines can probably take a maximum two tooth cam sprocket jump. As they have hydraulic lifters. The 616 and 617 engines with the equivalent of solid lifters. Cannot without damage. I have no certainty this is the issue. Just perhaps one possibility from your posts descriptions. I would want to eliminate it by checking. If it were my car.


Usually the chains just break on all those engines. With the rare exception.

The timing chain can NOT slip, period. Do not imagine things. Your car has nothing seriously wrong except noise ( subjective ) and smoke ( again subjective ).

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

. You get a piece of plastic chain guide rail in there loose. Saying it cannot happen is not completely true. Is it likely to happen? No.


All that is wrong is smoke and a higher level of engine noise? Well we can agree with that from his description. With perhaps some loss of power.

Besides claiming it is impossible. Any ideals? It is just something you quickly check. To make sure it is not an issue.

The car could have been running with a really old timing chain stretched seriously. He punched the car. The chain is held on the cam spikes when it is under tension. Reduce the chain tension and it could jump. Actually slide over the peaks of the cam sprocket.


The hydraulic chain tensioner probably has limits on how much chain stretch it can deal with. Many of these engines may still be running around with their original chains. Sludge could build up over time in the oil passage that feeds the hydraulic tensioner. Or the tensioner could have an issue where it was not tensioning the chain enough. To keep it strongly against the sprocket.


What you are basically saying is engines with timing chains cannot have issues. They do on average have less issues than cars with rubber belts. I know of a few cars sitting on theirs owners properties because they did not change them before they went.

I get it, a timing belt slip is a stretch...

As far as subjectivity goes, with an n=1, its not subjective. There is clearly something that happened from my perspective. Others, like my wife and kids, also can make the clear distinction of its attributes before and after the event, what ever it was. And whatever it was, was not gradual but rather, instantaneous.

We collectively would not align on "smokey" is as we are uncalibrated, but we can all detect a clear and distinct meanshift individually. They (with a degree of disdainment) agree its significantly different.

I posted a video https://youtu.be/K_68pdbhyg8

This is my 4th Mercedes diesel (3 previous were 617's) spanning 20 years and over 500k miles of driving and wrenching merc diesels. A few weeks ago this 300D used to purr and put out a barely perceptible waft of smoke from the exhaust.

As you'll see in the video, its not that way now.