W116 300SD Air Conditioning Upgrade (Parallel Flow Condenser, Sanden, Larger Fan) - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Squiggle Dog · #1 08-07-2015, 09:00 PM

This is an update to show that I'm still around! I've just been working lots and dealing with a sleeping disorder. Recently I have managed to make some progress on upgrading my 1980 300SD's non-functioning air conditioning. I live in Phoenix, home of the 120 degree Fahrenheit summers, so I really, really need air conditioning already (this is the fourth summer I've suffered through). And not just air conditioning, but GOOD air conditioning.

This is the stock system. The 12" fan is very small, and the condenser is not as efficient as the modern parallel flow type.

I installed the largest parallel-flow condenser that would fit (16X22") and made custom mounting brackets. I made a bracket so the stock style drier would fit, as it's compact and there isn't much room where it needs to go.

The 16" fan from a second generation W126 fits perfectly once the braces are bowed outward and a mounting bracket is fabricated to hold it at the bottom.

I want to have the most efficient system possible for maximum cooling power, yet I want it to look stock. So, I am going to have the parts powder coated in semi gloss black.

leathermang · #2 08-07-2015, 09:08 PM

I did not see a question.... but it is looking nice...
if I was into my fourth year without AC where you live I would not even mention " looking stock" ... I would be desperate for good AC FAST.... LOL
and yes, we were just about to send out a search party to see what happened to you... we assumed you just melted into the asphalt or sand to be honest.....

Squiggle Dog · #3 08-07-2015, 09:12 PM

I designed some hard lines that go to the drier and compressor.

I installed one of ROLLGUY's Sanden adapter brackets with a polished aluminum Sanden compressor. I'm probably going to use an R12 replacement like Duracool, or may use R12 itself. As a last resort, I can use R134a if needed. I just want the most efficient system possible.

Squiggle Dog · #4 08-07-2015, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I did not see a question....

My question is... WHO DA MAN?!

dieselgirl85300D · #5 08-07-2015, 11:35 PM

Im waiting to see if he finds another finny, and documents the restoration

Nice looking fabrication

w123fanman · #6 08-08-2015, 12:28 AM

I am currently working on a similar project for my brother's 1980 300SD but a bit more ambitious:

-7 cylinder Sanden compressor kit from Rollguy

-Dual parallel flow condensers (why not? Such a small condenser as it is)

-Volvo/Taurus electric fan to replace clutch fan. This is already installed, cools very well, and is a lot less expensive than a new clutch ($35 vs $250). The Volvo shroud required a small amount of cutting but fits the radiator and oil cooler very well. For this we still have to install a temp switch but currently for the summer we have it running constantly.

-Dual aux fan setup from 190E 2.6 (takes out the brackets for the old fan but fits in there very nicely, it's just two of the original fan, they pull gobs of air)

-150 amp alternator to handle the extra load of fans and eventual sound system upgrade (already installed)

-Unwired Tools ACC controller (pulled from his parts car, already installed)

-GM orifice tube system to replace the unreliable expansion valve, also act as filter, much easier to service than the expansion valve. Pressure/temp switches can be replaced without having to evacuate the system and cost far less

Also installing AN steel braided oil cooler lines, new engine mounts, engine shocks, oil filter housing seals, oil pan seal, Zerex G-05 coolant. Most of these are things that needed to be done and are easiest to do while the AC compressor is out.

The blower motor is currently working somewhat on and off so we have to diagnose that

These jobs should lead to a cool running engine and cold AC.

leathermang · #7 08-08-2015, 09:57 AM

USE R 12 given what you said you wanted.

Squiggle Dog · #8 08-08-2015, 11:15 AM

I am getting conflicting information. From the research I have done, I concluded that R12 replacement is the most efficient, followed by R12, R12/R134a blend, and lastly, R134a. But now I'm hearing that R134a is more efficient than R12.

Also, my research concluded that expansion valves were superior to orifice tubes, but due to cost, orifice tubes are used in most cars. Now I am hearing the opposite.

Also, which engine oil is better to use; synthetic or mineral, and which brand?

It didn't seem to me like there is enough clearance to fit dual parallel-flow condensers, at least not without making it difficult to remove the radiator and oil cooler. I decided to keep it as simple as possible.

I've never been a "fan" of electric fans, but obviously they are needed in front of the condenser. I did upgrade to a plastic 9-blade fan with the small pulley on the engine.

I currently have an 80 amp alternator, which is better than the 55 amp one my car was made with. Hopefully it's sufficient for the electricity I use. What's nice is that I can install a 150 amp one when this one quits.

I'm converting my car to the manual heat system.

leathermang · #9 08-08-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

I am getting conflicting information. From the research I have done, I concluded that R12 replacement is the most efficient, followed by R12, R12/R134a blend, and lastly, R134a. But now I'm hearing that R134a is more efficient than R12.

Also, my research concluded that expansion valves were superior to orifice tubes, but due to cost, orifice tubes are used in most cars. Now I am hearing the opposite.

You did not get conflicting information from ME.
You got ' R12 replacement ' recommendations from people SELLING that kind of stuff...
Use R 12 for best cooling and least load on your system.
I am not selling anything.
The choice on TXvalve and orifice involve other things designed into the system.... both work with proper systems around them... so you need to go with what you have.

Of course... it is YOUR car and you can use whatever you want to...

Squiggle Dog · #10 08-08-2015, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

You did not get conflicting information from ME.

No, but on another forum someone posted that R134a cools better than R12 because you only have to use 70-80% of the amount of R134a as you do R12. but I thought R12 cooled faster and stayed colder.

R12 replacement recommendations were from car enthusiasts on various forums regarding their personal vehicles.

leathermang · #11 08-08-2015, 05:04 PM

Then listen to them.
I am out of here.

Squiggle Dog · #12 08-18-2015, 11:25 PM

The parts came back from the powder coater. The condenser turned out really well, which was surprising. Unfortunately, the bolt threads weren't taped like they usually do, so I spent hours cleaning up the threads so the parts would fit together.

I am happy with the way it all looks. I will be replacing the drier with a new stock drier when I have the system charged. The auxiliary fan bearings were locked up and full of grit, so I replaced them and rebuilt the fan while I was at it. Even though the fan is from a second generation W126, it has a 116 part number on the grille. Odd, isn't it?

Tmadia · #13 08-19-2015, 10:21 AM

I've been using enviro cool (propane) for several years in 2 different cars and it has been fantastic. Next time I need to I'm going to use R152a, which is the dust can propellant. It has been tested quite a bit as a R134 replacement.

http://www.sae.org/events/aars/presentations/2008/manhoekim.pdf

Bottom line is that hydrocarbon refrigerants are more efficient and environmentally friendly than their fluorocarbon counterparts. If you are willing to accept the tiny risk of additional flammable gas in your vehicle then you are good to go.

Not trying to turn this into a refrigerant debate, it's your car you should do what you feel is best, just wanted to give you a personal experience point (I'm not selling the stuff).

funola · #14 08-19-2015, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmadia

I've been using enviro cool (propane) for several years in 2 different cars and it has been fantastic. Next time I need to I'm going to use R152a, which is the dust can propellant. It has been tested quite a bit as a R134 replacement.

http://www.sae.org/events/aars/presentations/2008/manhoekim.pdf

Bottom line is that hydrocarbon refrigerants are more efficient and environmentally friendly than their fluorocarbon counterparts. If you are willing to accept the tiny risk of additional flammable gas in your vehicle then you are good to go.

Not trying to turn this into a refrigerant debate, it's your car you should do what you feel is best, just wanted to give you a personal experience point (I'm not selling the stuff).

You are gonna give leathermang a heart attack.

I'm curious, is this what you'd use? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dust-Off-Electronics-Duster/25596750

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Pack-Ultra-Duster-Canned-Air-10-oz-Pure-R152a-Eco-Friendly-w-Bitterant-/231162212354?hash=item35d2577002

Would the R12 can taps fit these cans? Would the spray nozzles leak air into the can during charge?

My 85 is currently running well with R134A, I have 6 cans of Envirosafe ES12A and a nearly full 30 lb R12 cylinder on the shelf. I really want to try the Envirosafe and then the R12 but the 134A is working well enough, I don't want to waste it.

leathermang · #15 08-19-2015, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmadia

I've been using enviro cool (propane) ..... If you are willing to accept the tiny risk of additional flammable gas in your vehicle then you are good to go......

That is a COMPLETELY MISLEADING STATEMENT.
Moving the danger involved FROM where it IS to the inside of the car.. that is not where the danger resides.

The danger is that you have propane at the VERY FRONT of the vehicle , in weak aluminum tubes under pressure AND ALREADY mixed with OIL..... it does not take much of an accident to cause that propane and oil to spray out into the air and be subject to any sparks caused by the collision. If you are inside the vehicle and slow or unable to exit ... you do not want a FIRE.... added to the situation... normal people realize this...

Everyone should watch ' The Great Waldo Pepper' with Robert Redford once early in their life. It will help you understand this concept.

The Risks of Hydrocarbon Refrigerant Blends - Article - TruckingInfo.com

"""""Hydrocarbon blends are highly flammable and in a confined space may burn or explode in the presence of an open flame, spark, or cigarette. No vehicle manufacturer has endorsed or authorized the use of hydrocarbon refrigerants in its current-production A/C systems, according to Red Dot. They can degrade gaskets and hoses designed for R-134a or R-12, making leaks more likely. Use them and you'll void the warranty.""""