Spent all afternoon trying to remove timing device, could not get the bottom of the chain off sprocket. Looked like another pin down underneath the chain, tried pull & broke it off. Finally cut timing chain in half and tried to roll chain out & it stops after about a 6 inches either direction. Stumped now, its ruined 2 vacuum pumps because bushing is shot I'm guessing. Read several posts on this & not sure what to remove at bottom of chain, can't even pry the chain down off teeth.

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1982 240d "butternut"
1991 F350 4x4 7.3 5spd

Sounds like time to remove the front timing case cover...

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Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

Did you remove the Timing Chain Tensioner that pushes on the Big Rail?

Also the Intermedate Shaft that the Timer is mounted on is a matched set to the other part of it that drives the Oil Pump. A new set used to cost about $450 if they are still availiable.

If you get a used one you need to get both parts of it and use it as a complete set.

On the 617.952 Dropping the Steel Oil Pan allows you to see the Bottom of the Timing Chan. I think it could also be pulled out from below if but I have not read of anyoine doing that.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Oh dear

I'm assuming this is about an OM616 (judging by the car in the sig) in which case there isn't a removable timing cover - so @OP don't bother looking for it! The OM61X are fiddly at the front - you need to either dig down from the vacuum pump hole or dig up from the crank...

There is no need to remove the drive to the oil pump on the non turbo OM61X engines in order to remove the timing device - but it is most certainly something that should be checked once you have gotten this far.

I agree that the tensioner should be removed - and considering what has happened removal of the sump will probably be useful.

However before you get to that stage I recommend removing the rocker arms so that the crank can be turned as this will probably help with the chain removal. The rocker arms need to be out though so that all of the valves are closed. The OM61X is not a "safe" engine - piston crowns will meet valves.

If the rocker arms are out and the tensioner is off - glow plugs are out - and turning the crank gives a feeling of resistance then I'd suspect the lower right hand side guides are holding the chain. Removal of the sump will give a little bit of "bottom" access to the problem.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I think you will have to remove the rocker arms to get engine rotation now. Make sure to number each rocker arm as they are location specific. Each one wears a little different.

Removal of the glow plugs will also be a good thing. I am sure you are currently getting valve interference with the chain separated at the current time. If the chain end is still accessable it is useful to roll a new one in.

Anyways in general I would not expect to be able to turn the 616 engine with a separated chain. If you knew the chain was good. You might be able to replace a link depending how you cut the chain.

My guess is you might also need some more help in describing how to get back into timing. You just now have some work at hand rather than a serious issue. A lot of guys on site can guide you if needed.

I see my post is somewhat simular to the last one I just noticed.

Yes, hitting a valve I bet. According to lower & upper timing marks the engine is 4 degrees retarded. It is a 616 with a ton of miles so I was going to replace timing chain anyways. Will undo rockers tonight & try again. Do I need that guide pin out on the bottom, I have the tensioner & upper guide pin out.

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1982 240d "butternut"
1991 F350 4x4 7.3 5spd

I knew the Timer comes off without removing the Intermediate Shaft. I mentioned the cost of the Intermediate Shaft incase for some reason you decided to use some force on it. It was just a caution.

Also it is not always easy to pick out what someone has done from what they write.

I also can't recall anyone having a similar issue to draw info from.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Ok, I removed rocker assemblies & was able to roll chain off bottom of timing device. I don't see how the chain would have enough clearance with the lower chain guide in place for the timing device to come off. The guide holds the chain against the lower part of sprocket. Now I have timing device off & the shaft is still moving in & out at least 1/4inch. So I guess what ever is worn out is on the injection pump side?

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1982 240d "butternut"
1991 F350 4x4 7.3 5spd

Sorry to come across as being personally critical - didn't mean it to be like that.

I think the combined message from us all is that as you've cut the chain, turning the crank and pulling the chain out from the bottom might be an option. As you say the guide on the right (standing in from of the engine looking at it) is close to the sprocket but once you get the cut end of the chain past that guide I think the left hand side will more or less come free as the big banana guide rail isn't as close to the sprocket (I hope I've remembered that correctly!)...

...if there's still not enough space after all that effort I reckon removal of the bottom pin on the banana guide rail will give you enough space for the chain to drop out.

Nope that isn't so likely. Remove the intermediate shaft to look at the bushing.

Do you have a copy of the FSM? If you do not I urge you to go have a read - it is time to make measurements and observe differences that are best explained by this documentation.

Go to www.startekinfo.com

Click on MB workshop resources

Click on CD/DVD

Click on W123

(Use MS explorer for best results - if you get stuck I can figure out direct links to the chapters you need)

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I do not have a FSM, modem is broken on big computer so all I have is tablet. It does most everything except quotes & ms explorer. Will get a new modem so I can get manual.

I'm guessing shaft comes out thru the back?
Found picture of whole assembly of someone else that had same issue & still can't see how this thing has so much lateral movement?

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1982 240d "butternut"
1991 F350 4x4 7.3 5spd

When you can get to download lots of MB look for chapter 05-412

You do indeed need to remove the injector pump to get at the intermediate shaft. The bushing, however, is removed from the front - there's a screw holding it in place that you should be able to see with the timing device removed.

The play in the bearing is most likely to be in a forwards / backwards sense - longitudinal to the whole vehicle.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Ok, I have the bushing out, the wear must be on the back side if bushing. That's the only way it could let the shaft move forward? The last vacuum pump it shoved the piston out the front of the housing.

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1982 240d "butternut"
1991 F350 4x4 7.3 5spd

If that is the case you are the first one I have read to report that.

I found an endplay spec of .05-.12mm for the timing unit.
Post #25
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=258062&highlight=.05-.12mm

Attached Thumbnails

 

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I remember reading that post, helped me realize what was happening with this one.
The back side of bushing, I mean where it is mated against oil pump drive gear. Maybe the front of that gear has some wear on it also?
Next step I will get pump off & remove shaft.
All I know for sure is this thing is able to move forward a lot.

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1982 240d "butternut"
1991 F350 4x4 7.3 5spd

I have figured out mostly what I need. The parts site 3 different bushings options for the shaft. Is there a engine # somewhere to find the correct one?

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1982 240d "butternut"
1991 F350 4x4 7.3 5spd