I searched, but clearly not well enough it seems.

I took off the intake/exhaust manifold as part of my turbo rebuild on my 1982 300SD and have a couple questions.

1. What gasket should I use? Erling? Victor Reinz? What is OEM?
2. Would copper spray hurt, help, or really not needed. I have read different opinions.
3. I know the torque specs for the intake nuts are elusive or even non existent but, people must be tightening them to some value? What should I tighten the nuts to?
4. Is it a good idea to replace the manifold studs and nuts or really not necessary?

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1982 300SD
1992 190e 2.3 8v
2002 P38 Range Rover

I actually reused My Manifold Gasket by Spraying it down with Copper-Kote. So I know it is not going to hurt. I figured the Glue would burn off and the little Copper particles would squash and seal. But, that likely makes me a Heretic.

If I remember correctly you cannot get a torque Wrench all of them any way.

More importantly I found that My Exhaust Manifold was slightly warped and I fixed that.

You need to be carful on the Torque of the Manfold Nuts becasue the Studs that go into the Head only have about 4 Full threads on them. I know because 2 Studs backed out when I was trying to remove the Nuts.

I found a torque for all Copper Nuts that thread size at some internet Hot Rod type seller and then lost it and can't remember the site. But, the solid Copper Nuts are supposed to prevent over tightening.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I don't want to re-use my old gasket as I had a leak in it and just thought a new one would be cheap insurance.

Talk about price shock.... I won't be replacing the studs with MB OEM. There are 6 of them at $55.00 a piece for 4 and $22.00 for the other two for a grand total of $264.00 for 6 studs.... YIKES...

I hear and understand the issue of over torquing because of the limited thread engagement at the head, which I am sure is fine at the factory with very strict parameters, but now not knowing the torque and probably a tendancy to over torque most things I was wondering this:

Has anyone used a different aftermarket stud? It seems the threaded part that goes into the head could be longer, ie the hole in the head is deeper than the thread is long. And I would think deeper than what would be required for any elongation (if that is even a consideration) of the bolt through heating and cooling?

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1982 300SD
1992 190e 2.3 8v
2002 P38 Range Rover

I found a suitable replacement stud at Mc Master Carr for not too much $. Replaced all the copper nuts with new and tightened them until I met a sort of sudden large amount of resistance with a 3/8 inch ratchet. You will know when you get there. No need to overdo it. Also used Permatex Ultra Copper sealant--a thin film on both sides of the gasket surrounding both the intake and exhaust openings. So far no leaks. I had been seeing oil leakage from the intake openings due to blowby oil.
Peter

Is this the one that is Silicone?
However, if the Ultra-Copper has Silicone and it worked; it worked.


If so that is not what I used.

The Copper-Kote I used is a thin Rubber Cement with Copper granules/Particles suspended in it. Due to the Exhaust and Intake being combined on the Gasket (I also re-used the Turbocharger to Exhaust Manifold Gasket by coating it with Copper-Kote) I used what I did because I felt the Rubber Cement was going to burn off quickly from the Exhaust portion of the Gasket leaving the smash Copper to do the Sealing.

Something with Silicone Sealant is fine for the Intake part of the Gasket. But, it would not be My choice for the Exhaust parts.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Copper-Kote kicks booty! I've used it on head gaskets for years without an issue. I even got a Peugeot Diesel head to seal after repeated tries with different makes of gaskets and other alternative Voo Doo. I also used it on my 617 intake/exhaust gasket but I haven't started the engine yet so I can't swear for the results.

As far as fasteners - McMaster is, of course, a great choice or there's always APR. The ARP stuff exceeds aircraft requirements and they are probably as tough a fastener as you can find anywhere, including Germany. Virtually all NHRA and NASCAR teams run them and they don't use what doesn't work.

As far as torque - as mentioned, you really can't get a torque wrench on many of those fasteners anyhow. In the old Chrysler service manuals they used to specify "mechanic's torque" on many fasteners such as pan bolts, front cover bolts, etc. You develop a feel for what's appropriate after you do this for a while. You might want to teach yourself what, say, 25-30 foot lbs. feels like by clamping a nut in the vice and torquing a bolt into the nut at say, 25 ft/lb. Then grab your ratchet or end wrench or whatever weapon you intend to use and see what it takes to just move that bolt - you'll be at about 30 ft/lb once it moves a tad. That 25/30 ft/lb (or whatever that is in metric) is a decent starting place and you're not likely to break anything with that "feel".

Good luck

Dan

Yes, the Permatex Ultra Copper product is a silicon product. One of its suggested uses on the label is exhaust flanges and manifolds so I gave it a try. The FSM suggests that no sealant at all should be used on the manifold gasket but I have tried that with not so much success. The manifold gasket is pretty stiff, and the torque available is limited as discussed.
I am not familiar with the Copper Kote product but will probably give it a try if the silicon fails and I have to do it again.
Peter

This is the copper spray I am talking about. Seems the common thought is that it isn't a bad idea to use.

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1982 300SD
1992 190e 2.3 8v
2002 P38 Range Rover

I stripped the exhaust manifold by using electrolysis. Just need a tub, several sacrificial anodes, some washing soda, and a battery charger. Rust is gone in a couple hours... This was my first time using this method and I'm hooked.

After I stripped all the rust I primed and painted using 2000 degree extreme heat paint. My wife was even pretty tolerant of the curing process that is required, ie baking in the kitchen oven.

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1982 300SD
1992 190e 2.3 8v
2002 P38 Range Rover

Anyone know where I can order the gasket for the waste-gate cover plate?

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1982 300SD
1992 190e 2.3 8v
2002 P38 Range Rover

I took some measurements on the exhaust manifold bolts and bolt holes.

The depth of the bolt holes on the head is 22.5 mm
The length of the stud threads is 9.5 mm

So it seems the exhaust studs that thread into the head could have a much longer thread engagement. Why would MB make the threads as short as they did I wonder?

Now the next question is, can I source longer threads that would engage more of the head and be less apt to pull out, strip, or back out

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1982 300SD
1992 190e 2.3 8v
2002 P38 Range Rover

I cut mine from brass shim stock, you can probably get away with something similar.

Nothing wrong with more engagement, just make usre you use neversieze. You can buy threaded rod from McMaster and cut to size. They may even have studs in stock.

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$60 OM617 Blank Exhaust Flanges
$110 OM606 Blank Exhaust Flanges
No merc at the moment

Simpler=Better what thickness did you use? Any idea if copper would work and hold up to the temps?

Just asking as I have some copper flashing left over from adding on to my deck. I'll have to check the thickness. If copper is even a viable option.


Thanks for the shim stock idea. where would I buy this other than on-line?

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1982 300SD
1992 190e 2.3 8v
2002 P38 Range Rover

OEM gasket arrived... Now I'm just waiting to source a good turbo exhaust turbine housing with no broken studs or bolts so I can start putting everything back together.

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1982 300SD
1992 190e 2.3 8v
2002 P38 Range Rover

Industrial places should have it, any machine shop, etc.

I used whatever was in the drawer, you could probably be fine with flashing, just cut it it in the shape of the contact areas. If you leave large flaps exposed to the exhaust it's going to get hot.

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$60 OM617 Blank Exhaust Flanges
$110 OM606 Blank Exhaust Flanges
No merc at the moment