'91 300D trans stuck in 1st gear... - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JamesDean · #31 08-10-2012, 07:24 PM

Alright, well I've got the trans down as much as I can possible get it down...

I've got the governor cover off... Now How do I get this thing out? I dont wanna jam a screw driver in it and just pry... I tried using my finger to leverage it out but it want to move too much.

Also, something tells me that the gear is somewhat OK as I can't spin the governor completely around. It stops after about a 1/4 rotation in either direction.

The transmission will need to drop another 3-5 inches for me to have the hole out of the tunnel...

JamesDean · #32 08-10-2012, 08:07 PM

OK so I was reading ps2cho's thread about his 722.4 problem..then I opened up the ATSG pdf and read some more..

They had a bit about "turn output shaft so that governor is in the position shown (governor at 11/5 oclock)"

So I jacked up my rear end, put it in neutral and spun the drive shaft... The governod did not move at all.

So I think this is a fairly good indicator of a bad worm gear on the governor...but I still dont know how I'm going to get it out..

I dont have any snap ring pliers like that...

JamesDean · #33 08-10-2012, 08:26 PM

Ok so...

I can see (I think) one of the snap ring ears..

Based on this below, shouldnt the snap ring ears be inside that grove?

That is very much not the one that I can see is at...

JamesDean · #34 08-10-2012, 08:55 PM

Alright, so I can finally see the snap ring ears... I just can't get my snap ring pliers on them.. the tips are need to be angled so I can get them up in there... Re-installing this thing is gonna be a pain... ATSG says to hold snap ring WHILE putting it in place.

I was able to get the tranny down lower by removing some random bracket that an exhaust shield was attached to.. The driveshaft was hitting it..

I wedged at 2x4 so I could have some more room..that really didnt do a whole lot...

sixto · #35 08-10-2012, 09:07 PM

Can you remove the passenger side engine mount and remove the radiator hoses so you can lower the passenger side of the engine?

Sixto
87 300D^2

JamesDean · #36 08-10-2012, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

Can you remove the passenger side engine mount and remove the radiator hoses so you can lower the passenger side of the engine?

Sixto
87 300D^2

Hmm you mean the driver side? I dont think lowering the passenger side of the drive train would help so much.. I could be wrong. I was trying to avoid going in quite that deep.

If I had the appropriate length snap ring pliers.. I could probably get the ring out.. but not quite sure if I have enough clearance for the governor..

sixto · #37 08-10-2012, 09:32 PM

Oops, I thought you were working on the B2 piston.

Sixto
87 300D^2

JamesDean · #38 08-10-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

Oops, I thought you were working on the B2 piston.

Sixto
87 300D^2

Nah, I was thinking it originally might have been that but then I found notes in the ATSG book and AllDATA pointing towards a plastic governor gear..

I just dont have a pair of snap ring pliers suitable for this task.. If I got some angled ones.. or If I got the transmission down another 2-3 inches or so...maybe i could do it..

Idk about removing the driver side engine mount...that might help gain acess.. then maybe i could get it with my normal pliers... Would any hoses/connection need to be removed? Not sure, first time really digging into a 124 and 602. .

sixto · #39 08-10-2012, 09:46 PM

I'm often accused of not saying what I mean. If it wasn't clear, the point of removing one engine mount is to rock the tranny so the side you're working on angles downward. The governor access hole doesn't have to be lower than the frame, you just need a straight shot at it.

Sixto
87 300D^2

JamesDean · #40 08-10-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

I'm often accused of not saying what I mean. If it wasn't clear, the point of removing one engine mount is to rock the tranny so the side you're working on angles downward. The governor access hole doesn't have to be lower than the frame, you just need a straight shot at it.

Sixto
87 300D^2

Hmmmm. Well if I removed the driver side mount..The whole contraption might rotate enough so that I can a straight shot at the gov..

Right now.. I just cant get a good angle with my current tools... Maybe if i could find my tips and try a different tip... Idk.

With regard to removing the driver side mount.. Are there just two bolts holding the mount in place? Engine arm to mount..and frame to mount? So I'd just remove the top bolt...and the bottom and yoink the mount out of the way ?

EDIT: Calling it quits for the night. If anyone can clarify something, in post 33, in the picture.. It seems to indicate that the snap ring's ears should be inside that notched area...is that correct? If so, mine are not.. maybe my governor got popped out of place? Seems odd.. Anyways.. I'm looking forward to hearing everyones thoughts come the morning. Hopefully we can wrap this 300D's tranny up tomorrow.

EDIT2: Actually..I think the annular grove they are talking about is on the governor itself... (arrow in the picture of governor+pliers)... I think they are talking about the nose alignment in the bottom diagram..

EDIT3: Got a set of snap ring pliers with a variety of tips... I was able to get one of the tip onto the lower ear..but not a chance for the top ear.. I think if the bore was lower/rotated..MAYBE there would be a chance of getting it... So dropping the driver side engine mount might be a viable path... Or maybe undoing the exhaust at the manifold connection...maybe that'll lower it some more idk.... I cant think if anything else at the moment, if someone's got a better idea..

Stretch · #41 08-11-2012, 03:49 AM

You need to PM ps2cho about this - I think he removed his transmission in the end to get to it all.

This sounds like a repeat of this scenario =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/308281-help-stuck-road-722-3-no-3rd-4th-gear.html

pmckechnie · #42 08-11-2012, 09:57 AM

James
I wish I could remember more from when I did mine. I do remember that I used a tie down strap or maybe a ratcheting strap to pull and hold the transmission as far to the right as I could get it. I believe I used a pry bar to get it as low as possible and put wood blocks between the trans and floor board. Could the drive shaft be hitting the exhaust shield? If so, just remove/loosen the shield bolts to get it down some more. I didn't remove or loosen the engine mounts. I think I may have used screw drivers to get the snap ring to release. It doesn't take a lot of pressure to compress it. I am sure it is doable in the car. I had to remove it again about a year later to get a piece of trash out that was causing it to hang up.
Best of luck
Paul

JamesDean · #43 08-11-2012, 03:27 PM

Well we unbolted the driveshaft from the transmission, it got a little lower most of the bore is now exposed. I dont think we can go any lower, so now I think sixto's engine mount idea is the best path.. That should let the engine/tranny tilt so we can get out alan/snap ring pliers deep enough in the bore or even a straight set of snap ring pliers in there to release the governor.

Concurrently, I'm working on the 190E. I was trying to replace the idler arm bushing but the damn bolt hits the exhaust pipe and I've got no cutoff wheels to cut the bolt out.. Soooo back on it goes.

JamesDean · #44 08-12-2012, 12:23 PM

GENTLEMEN. LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO:

A broken helical gear on a governor:

And here is some information for anyone trying to do this in the future:

Rotate the snap ring all the way toward the front of the vehicle, so that its wedged against something. Then, go buy yourself a hook and scribe set. It looks
like this (there are two in the kit)

Insert this into the upper ear of the ring, and pull down, then use the other to help pull out the governor.

I also believe my drive gear will need to be replaced. It looks like one spline is damaged, I could not get very good pictures of this but, and this was just my first observation. I'm going to try to rotate the output shaft and see more of the drive gear. I've got a spare on hand but I'm just not sure about removing the old one. It seems to me that the tailshaft will have to be removed. I hope/believe that it can be done with the transmission ON THE CAR still... Just might require removing the drive shaft.

Yep looks like two of the splines are damaged. From the ATSG manual it looks like this job can be done with the trans on the car still. They actually didnt mention removing the driveshaft either. I think if I just remove the flex disc completely it would be enough room.. We'll see.

Here are the additional spline pictures, the lighter color section are where there should be material..but there is not. Why they used plastic gears..I'll never know.

Part Numbers:
Helical Gear for Governor: 201 274 03 15, $4
Snap Ring for Gear : 912009020100, $1.08

Drive Gear:201 274 00 15, $4
Drive Gear Snap Ring: 126 994 03 35, (might not be necessary), $2.16
Tailshaft Gasket: 201 271 01 80, $3

Now here is a good question, when I remove the tailshaft... How much of this stuff is going to stay in the tailshaft? That is to say, when I remove the tailshaft is everything to the right of item 30 going to be in the tail shaft once removed or am I going to have to remove all that stuff in order to get to the item indicated by the arrow?

It looks like the gear just parks up into item #10 and is held is with a snap ring....

Based on these pics I found from another 722.4 thread here on the forum. It looks like this is what I'll be greeted by with the tail shaft housing off..
It looks like if I remove that oil tube and the parking gear and that other helical gear I should have access... I'm hoping all that just slides out and isnt retained by any rings or such....

Access to this area, the red arrow pointing to the governor's helical gear, just above it should be the drive gear. It looks like there is a snap ring at the front of the drive gear but accessing it from the rear seems to negate the need to remove that snap ring.

From the way this is all assembled, it looks like any broken pieces would land in the tailshaft area and never make it back to the pan much less the rest of the transmission. I still have to order a new tail shaft gasket, $3, I wish I didn't have to... I mean I guess I could use the old one? But thats probably stupid/lazy.

pmckechnie · #45 08-12-2012, 12:56 PM

James,
Did you find the other half of the gear? I didn't. If you found/find it would you let me know where it was?
Paul