Thoughts about GM and diesel cars - Page 8 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #**106** 11-20-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty600

Our neighbors work for the big3,

So what? That means we have to bail out an industry that is failing and going to fail?

pj67coll · #**107** 11-20-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty600

When product reliability was poor, mid 70's thru late 80's, they were not alone -ALL the makers were playing catch-up to EPA and NHTSA..where are the 1985 toyotas or hondas? Yea, they were all crushed a decade ago--rusted away with broken drivelines that could not be fixed because there were are no parts, even if you were foolish enough to want to try....I have been there!

Correct. Their cars may have been marginally more reliable than Detroits worst during that period but that in itself was insufficient to account for the ludicrously mythic status they seem to have assumed. They were bought back then because they were cheap to buy (because they were dumped in the US at cut prices subsidized by their exorbitant prices in a captive market back in Japan) and cheap to fuel, because they had tiny engines that would naturally use far less gas than larger ones.

Having eaten into the US market they were then able to move upmarket with all the advantages that they had over Detroit. Principally no unions and a more adaptive management than Detroit.

Quote:

And as far as the 'superior' engineering that the japanese are "known" for, here is my take/story:
Wife HAD to have the 1988 honda CRX si, I did not want it, but she was working full time, so.... fast forward a year later...heavy rains...drove thru a 2 inch deep PUDDLE in the road...and the entire engine was instantly toast, bent rods and destroyed head, etc. The water was fed into the motor and hydrolocked it. 1 puddle. My 16 yearold son
would not have designed an intake like that. I was unfortunate to own 2 other jap. cars, purchased used...same basic tomfoolery in build.

I agree. They've undoubtedly built some good cars over time, but they are no where as wonderful as some folks seem to think. The 1980's Toyota Corolla (the really angular squarish one) for example in addition to being an unpleasant vehicle to drive was also one of the worlds easiest to break into. I know because I broke into several on different occasions for various reasons and left not a trace. I was able to do that for one reason only. Cheap crappy design and build quality. They had fairly reliable engines and electronics and in all other aspects were tin and plastic junk. But for some reason folks were all gaga over them. I just don't get it.

- Peter.

lowriderdog37 · #**108** 11-20-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty600

Just read the current issue of "autoweek"---The 'european car of the year' was awarded, not to our beloved MB, but to Opel. That's GM...so who can really declare they only make poor goods?

And when they decide to sell them here, I will take a look with an open mind. GM has many different cars and options that they provide (and sell a lot of them) to other parts of the world that they won't even try to sell here.

Marty600 · #**109** 11-21-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So what? That means we have to bail out an industry that is failing and going to fail?

All this bad news, I am trying to remain an optimist. I don't want a simple-minded bailout, something has to give--top Exc. pay, hourlies' pay rates, something--I have a small machine shop, not a MBA, so I am a small fish without the big answers needed. I can see thru your sig you have a ford and a chevy, If you truly believe they will fail, shouldn't you sell them quick? Values will plummet if there is a chapt. 11 filing. Conversely, with a serious blow like that, the unions are out, most likely...like in the asian transplant shops here. I must be getting old (48), but I cannot imagine the US without
GM. I am hoping for fed. assistance for them largely because of the instant response for the wall st. crowd when they had a difficult quarter, darn it, manufacturing has been in these straights for over a decade.

aklim · #**110** 11-21-2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty600

I can see thru your sig you have a ford and a chevy, If you truly believe they will fail, shouldn't you sell them quick? Values will plummet if there is a chapt. 11 filing.

Conversely, with a serious blow like that, the unions are out, most likely...like in the asian transplant shops here.

I must be getting old (48), but I cannot imagine the US without GM. I am hoping for fed. assistance for them largely because of the instant response for the wall st. crowd when they had a difficult quarter, darn it,

manufacturing has been in these straights for over a decade.

The vette has more in it that it is worth because it is a toy. The Ex is a towing vehicle and the Japs don't have anything better. Basically, I am not looking to sell them even if the big 3 go into chapter 11.

That would be a good start.

Yes but what they have is basically a recipe for disaster. They should be left to evolve on their own or die out.

Manufacturing is dead. Lo tech manufacturing of that sort anyways. We need to move on to something else the world needs instead of trying to beat a dead horse.

cphilip · #**111** 11-21-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How do you like your 7.2L Powerstroke? I like my 7.3 one a lot.

Must be a new model I was unaware of.

I know 7.3 units are very modifiable. I have tweaked mine a bit. What do they make for the 7.2L Powerstroke?

LOL...

Sorry about that... the 2 is just right next to the 3 ya know!

Been a good motor. Mine is a 01 and is still just a shade under 100K on it. I haven't done a lot of motor mods other than add a Coolant filter to it and a bunch of Electronics inside like guages and DVD system. It is a Dually Crew cab I use to tow a Camper and a Band/Motorcycle trailer around. Now currently weighs in at about 8500 pounds! And at that gets 16 mpg around town and will occasionally get 19 on the highway unloaded and all that with the 4.10 rear end. Can't say I have had good luck with the tranny though. It was one of the Diode failure trucks, but remedied that with a total rebuild and upgraded some stuff.

Here is a couple shots of the beast:

aklim · #**112** 11-21-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cphilip

LOL...

Sorry about that... the 2 is just right next to the 3 ya know!

Been a good motor. Mine is a 01 and is still just a shade under 100K on it. I haven't done a lot of motor mods other than add a Coolant filter to it and a bunch of Electronics inside like guages and DVD system. It is a Dually Crew cab I use to tow a Camper and a Band/Motorcycle trailer around. Now currently weighs in at about 8500 pounds! And at that gets 16 mpg around town and will occasionally get 19 on the highway unloaded and all that with the 4.10 rear end. Can't say I have had good luck with the tranny though. It was one of the Diode failure trucks, but remedied that with a total rebuild and upgraded some stuff.

Did a few things to mine: 01 Excursion 7.3L Powerstroke. Gauges with AIH Delete, AIS, CCV Mod, 4' MBRP, BTS Trans, 6.0L Trans Cooler and Intercooler, DP-Tuner F5 chip, ITP In Tank Mod and Boost Annihilator, Diesel Innovation's Regulated Fuel kit, BTS Big Oil system, Van Turbo and BPD Stage II AC injectors. Bilstein Shocks with U code front and A code Rear.

bratwurst · #**113** 11-21-2008, 11:54 AM

Build quality is OK from the Big 3 makers. I have a newer C class and I'm sure there's American cars that are just as reliable. Not a fair comparison because the 2001 C class is pretty famous for electrical issues... but I digress..

I think the problem is they've lost their way. The Mercedes brand is "Quality and Conservative". The BMW brand is "Ultimate Autobahn Machine". What is GM's brand? It used to be "Great Fullsize Pickups" but they didn't have much other than that.

I work for the local AAA and during the summer they had a classic car drive-in. Part of the collection were a number of Cadillacs from the 40's and 50's. These cars were awesome, the build quality looked fantastic, the fit and finish was wonderful, the styling was exciting and risky and the car, as a whole, was awe-inspiring. Now what is a Cadillac? Well, its grampa's land yacht in most people's eyes. I know there are some good products starting to come from Caddy but this is still the perception and I don't see it changing until someone with real balls takes the reigns of these carmakers. A real car enthusiast needs to save these companies from the accountants and derivatives-hawking stockbrokers who've taken them over.

I'm not suggesting the Caddy tries to build German style sport sedans either; just that they need an identity that is is unique, appealing and interesting instead of a lot of the porridge they been producing since say 1967.

jcyuhn · #**114** 11-21-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty600

Wife HAD to have the 1988 honda CRX si, I did not want it, but she was working full time, so.... fast forward a year later...heavy rains...drove thru a 2 inch deep PUDDLE in the road...and the entire engine was instantly toast, bent rods and destroyed head, etc. The water was fed into the motor and hydrolocked it. 1 puddle. My 16 yearold son
would not have designed an intake like that. I was unfortunate to own 2 other jap. cars, purchased used...same basic tomfoolery in build.
I guess I do love Detroit, drive a Benz for all the same reasons you guys do...but a new one? Nah, too much money! I will be buying the 2010 Ford Fiesta, now that's a ride that can save at the pump!

A friend in the Detroit area a friend purchased a brand new CRX Si, a 1987ish model I think. Interesting little car, Detroit certainly never built anything like it, and Honda knows how to build a nice engine. Anyway, he took delivery in late fall. Fifteen months later, perhaps February of its second winter, the exhaust system was rusted out and needed to be replaced, for a surprising amount of $$$. That was pathetic quality, even by Detroit standards.

cphilip · #**115** 11-21-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Did a few things to mine: 01 Excursion 7.3L Powerstroke. Gauges with AIH Delete, AIS, CCV Mod, 4' MBRP, BTS Trans, 6.0L Trans Cooler and Intercooler, DP-Tuner F5 chip, ITP In Tank Mod and Boost Annihilator, Diesel Innovation's Regulated Fuel kit, BTS Big Oil system, Van Turbo and BPD Stage II AC injectors. Bilstein Shocks with U code front and A code Rear.

Sounds like you hang out at "theDieselStop" sometimes?

I already had the towing package with dual Alts but I am still running the stock aux Trans Cooler and intercooler. Do have an aux. 45 gallon fuel tank and pump. Still running Green coolant with additive too for that matter.

Interior I added a powered Sony screen in the headliner, with a DVD player. A Ford aux Idle controller, CB radio, and X- monitor (Trans Temp, Pyro, Boost).

Did the marine plug in the bumper for the Block heat and added a Front receiver hitch and auxiliary rear Lamps.

aklim · #**116** 11-21-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cphilip

Sounds like you hang out at "theDieselStop" sometimes?

I already had the towing package with dual Alts but I am still running the stock aux Trans Cooler and intercooler. Do have an aux. 45 gallon fuel tank and pump. Still running Green coolant with additive too for that matter.

A Ford aux Idle controller, CB radio, and X- monitor (Trans Temp, Pyro, Boost).

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
http://powerstrokenation.com

Single alt here. I switched to Fleetrite so I don't have to add the FW-15 and it is supposed to be a better coolant.

I have an F5 chip with a high idle programmed into one of the slots if I so desire.

DieselAddict · #**117** 11-21-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty600

Thing is, the Malibu is a better car than camry...according to Car+Driver mag.
Also, if you want to save gas, GM has the product you need.
Conversely, they also have really really fast rides out there, the new Caddy set the track record at Nurburgring. I am not a GM 'guy', I like Ford, nor am I a union guy...

I test drove both and the Malibu doesn't even come close to the Camry in roominess , comfort and performance. Also, what GM vehicle that isn't a total piece of $hit is good on gas? I have yet to see one. IMO the only decent cars sold in the US that are good on "gas" are the VW TDI's and MB Bluetecs/CDI's.

bustedbenz · #**118** 11-21-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

I test drove both and the Malibu doesn't even come close to the Camry in roominess , comfort and performance. Also, what GM vehicle that isn't a total piece of $hit is good on gas? I have yet to see one. IMO the only decent cars sold in the US that are good on "gas" are the VW TDI's and MB Bluetecs/CDI's.

GM may not have it, but Ford certainly does.

Shopping for "roominess" and "performance" in the compact car four-and-six-cylinder markets seems to be just a tad counterproductive, although I'm sure there's several good reasons for doing so. It seems like the roomy, comfortable, good-on-gas domestic car at the moment is the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis from Ford. It's bigger than any sedan GM's making at the moment, as near as I can tell - our 2004 is quite roomy and comfortable (since it's a full size car, it ought to be) - and the V-8 gives us 22-ish mpg, which is really fairly respectable considering it's a performance engine. Sort of hits the highlights of all the shopping points for a fairly high-quality roomy sedan... if you want 40+ mpg then you're sort of relegated to the "mid-size" or "compact" market anyway.

DieselAddict · #**119** 11-21-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

GM may not have it, but Ford certainly does.

Shopping for "roominess" and "performance" in the compact car four-and-six-cylinder markets seems to be just a tad counterproductive, although I'm sure there's several good reasons for doing so. It seems like the roomy, comfortable, good-on-gas domestic car at the moment is the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis from Ford. It's bigger than any sedan GM's making at the moment, as near as I can tell - our 2004 is quite roomy and comfortable (since it's a full size car, it ought to be) - and the V-8 gives us 22-ish mpg, which is really fairly respectable considering it's a performance engine. Sort of hits the highlights of all the shopping points for a fairly high-quality roomy sedan... if you want 40+ mpg then you're sort of relegated to the "mid-size" or "compact" market anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Crown Vic/Grand Marc has no rear headrests. That's just stupid & unsafe. 22 mpg is nothing to brag about. Again, the only cars with economy AND performance are the VW & MB diesels. I'd also add the Camry Hybrid to the list perhaps, but it's not quite the same because going uphill for too long will make it run out of juice like with any other hybrid. Also battery performance goes down with age. So really, the diesels are best.

If I did have to go with a Ford, I think I'd go with the new Taurus. That one actually has fairly decent combo of performance, comfort and mileage, but still nothing compared to the diesels.

odie · #**120** 11-21-2008, 02:01 PM

GM had diesel cars in the 80's. but they messed up the 5.7 diesel by using the same head bolts as the 5.7 gas engine. not strong enough and blew too many head gaskets. thus americans believe all diesel cars are bad. so entire car diesel market here collapsed in the 80's and Nissan, toyota, mazda, ford, mits, dodge, gm, buick, caddy, olds, bmw, lincoln who all sold diesel cars quit. only VW and MB stayed in.