Emergency - need forum opinion - terrible rust!

[rebreath]

when I bought my 84,after bringing it home and really going over it ,i found several rusty areas.some were severe,including pretty much what you have there.I was worried that my fiancee' might actually go thru the floor in the seat.After cutting out the cancer I used some moderate gauge metal and cut to fit.then painted entire plate with kano's exrust,followed up with some eastwood rust coat(http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemType=CATEGORY&itemID=372)
then riveted from bottom up and coated whole patch with rubberized undercoat on the outside.Inside ,I had to reposition the seat belt bolt due to its rusty demise.local welder attached the"nut" to another previously bent and shaped plate.this also was riveted in place with stainless rivets,then again covered whole patch with eastwoods rust preventer sealer.So far,so good.

[rchase]

Originally Posted by JHZR2

But at this point Id like to try to make the best of a bad situation, where I am facing loosing many thousands of dollars - because as far as Im concerned, though the interior looks 'as new', and the visable exterior looks 'as new' with a top-notch paint job and all, the car has zer value, as the best I could do at this point is salvage and sell parts, which I have neither the time or space to do. Id hope that my fellow forum members would be on my side, as opposed to vouching for 'the other guy', who, right or wrong represented and sold something not as claimed.

Maybee zero value to you but with the correct repairs this car could last for many more years and provide someone else a great deal of pleasure. While it might be dramatic to talk about how worthless the car is from what I gather you have not really had the car up on a lift to make an accurate estimate of the repairs that the car needs. Why trash a perfectly good car just because you are upset you got ripped off?

[t walgamuth]

imho if the car was represented to have had all the rust repaired you have a strong case for getting all of your money back.

did you cut away the undercoating to reveal the rusty areas? if so before you did that it may have looked pretty great. the undercoating on these benzes is so thick it will endure when the underlying metal is gone.

i had one which had a little blister about the size of half a hens egg on the bottom. when i cut away the undercoating to reveal the metal i found a rusty area the size nearly of my forarm.

i would try to get him to take it back for sure.

a deal is a deal unless the product has been misrepresented by the seller. then a deal is not necessarily a deal.

worth a try. the courts may work for you on this. here, for about thirty five bucks you can file in small claims up to three thousand dollar value. no lawyers are necessary and the rules of operation are a lot more casual than in regular court.

you can file for all the money you have lost in the matter too.

but i would try to get him to take it back for sure.

a repair estimate from a reputable body shop would be fairly easy to get and will be good leverage.

i would begin wtih a phone call and if that does not work would follow it immediately with a certified letter.

good luck.

the worst case is where you have someone who is judgement proof (no money and no attachable assets).

tom w

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by rchase

Why trash a perfectly good car just because you are upset you got ripped off?

Trash isnt necessaril the right word, but if I try to 'unload' the car because I cannot do the repair work, and don't feel comfortable with the situation, how much will someone pay for a good engine, like new top paint and like new engine???

Well, on my 83, which was smashed from behind, but has a still perfect engine and trans (still starts on the first cylinder after sitting for 2.5 years), Ill be able to maybe get $500 for it.

Unfortunately that is the reality of the resale of these vehicles from what Ive seen... Fully functional but not as pretty ones go for $2-3000, as-new versions go for a small premium over that, and moderate rust or more makes them nearly worthless, maybe $500...

Thats a big differential...

UGH... we shall see...

Thanks!

JMH

[rchase]

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Trash isnt necessaril the right word, but if I try to 'unload' the car because I cannot do the repair work, and don't feel comfortable with the situation, how much will someone pay for a good engine, like new top paint and like new engine???

Well, on my 83, which was smashed from behind, but has a still perfect engine and trans (still starts on the first cylinder after sitting for 2.5 years), Ill be able to maybe get $500 for it.

Unfortunately that is the reality of the resale of these vehicles from what Ive seen... Fully functional but not as pretty ones go for $2-3000, as-new versions go for a small premium over that, and moderate rust or more makes them nearly worthless, maybe $500...

Thats a big differential...

UGH... we shall see...

Thanks!

JMH

Why can't you just paint the areas with rust stop and sell the car and inform the new owner? Its still a very pretty car and the rust likely won't be an issue for some time to come. You might even consider moving the car down south where rust is not an issue and owners don't really worry as much as you guys up north do.

Or even better paint the areas with rust stop and enjoy the car for as long as you can. Your still better off than if you bought a disposable Japanese car price wise.

[rchase]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

imho if the car was represented to have had all the rust repaired you have a strong case for getting all of your money back.

did you cut away the undercoating to reveal the rusty areas? if so before you did that it may have looked pretty great. the undercoating on these benzes is so thick it will endure when the underlying metal is gone.

i had one which had a little blister about the size of half a hens egg on the bottom. when i cut away the undercoating to reveal the metal i found a rusty area the size nearly of my forarm.

i would try to get him to take it back for sure.

a deal is a deal unless the product has been misrepresented by the seller. then a deal is not necessarily a deal.

worth a try. the courts may work for you on this. here, for about thirty five bucks you can file in small claims up to three thousand dollar value. no lawyers are necessary and the rules of operation are a lot more casual than in regular court.

you can file for all the money you have lost in the matter too.

but i would try to get him to take it back for sure.

a repair estimate from a reputable body shop would be fairly easy to get and will be good leverage.

i would begin wtih a phone call and if that does not work would follow it immediately with a certified letter.

good luck.

the worst case is where you have someone who is judgement proof (no money and no attachable assets).

tom w

Good luck. Even if you were to sue them and win (unlikely as even small claims judges have limited patience for people who whine about gray area issues that they should have checked before buying) you would still have to collect the judgement. Most individual personal property is protected under the law and the only route you could go would be lien and garnishment. Not to mention the costs involved with all the paperwork up front that you would unlikely recover.

[junqueyardjim]

I think Tom's advice of taking the guy to our local Small Claims Court is really a good route to follow. That is if you find talking to the seller is like peeing into the wind. Our member has not stated how much he spent for the car. And perhaps he does not wish to disclose that information. However, without knowing the dollars involved at this point, I find it rather hard to resolve in my mind as to whether or not I would advise him to repair it.
I want I nice car. I have driven nice cars all my life. I love these old Benzs. But I can't stand a rust bucket. And to fix this Benz and remove it from the list of rust buckets to fine car is not going to happen without spending thousands. And I mean THOUSANDS. It just won't happen. And we have to remember what it is. It's a W123 300 D. It is not a 80's model 280 SE Cabriolet with a 4.5 or an SL or SLC. A year ago I took mine to local body shops to see what it would take to make it presentable. My goodness, it went past $10,000.00 so fast it made me dizzy. And pop rivets, rust ender, POR and Eastwood products all have their place. But a patch job is not what I or the member involved want. We want good slick clean cars. And ask any good body man worth his salt, can it be removed and repaired? And they will all say the same thing. No, it can't be done. Patch it up, get it to look good for a couple of years and it is coming apart again. Once there is salt in those joints and panels, as soon as it gets moisture the process just keeps going. Take it back to the seller and make a believer out of him! If you can't do that, then take it to court. It would be a good one for Judge Judy's Court. I would love to see it there.

[d.delano]

Originally Posted by JHZR2

youre right and that is fine. The claims were that ALL rust was fixed, and that everything was professionally done. While that all may have been the case, and I did not look, I have to ask the questions.

I didnt roll around enough on the ground checking before I bought the car. That was my fault. I took the PO's word, and that was my fault.

But now Id like some ideas of what Im looking at for repair. I dont have the know how or tools to do this work - it must be professionally done. So I have to then wonder how much it might cost, if repair is even possible (at least appears so, the rust is really close to one of the subframe bolts), and opinions on how sound the car is.

The spot where the passenger seat hits the floor on the back outboard side is where I can see through the foorboard to the ground.

Im worried about the structural integrity of the floor and the car. That was one of the reasons why I didnt fix my 83. Im worried about how good any repair could be here...

Id love any opinions.


Thanks,

JMH

JMH-
That rust is heinous! I would have spotted those spray painted rusty rockers and rear subframe mounts without ever having to kneel. I mean those are some jumbo painted-over rust flakes. Can't believe you didn't see those!!!!!Dude- I feel for ya- but realistically were you smoking crack? Living in Jersey of all places you just believe whatever people tell you? Well believe this- you should divest yourself of that car for it WILL break your bank to fix properly and I don't mean maybe. You want a proper and permanent fix for that, pop rivets don't cut it in my view. Not for structural rust anyway, and as far as I'm concerned you got a lot of it. Count on 10k for proper restorative bodywork(no pop-riveted Home Depot gutter metal, preferably no Bondo either) of you can even find someone who will mess with it. That's some championship blue-ribbon rust. I mean ouch! Rust is like an iceberg- the part you actually see is only the tip of it. There's more, and you can take that to the bank. Even if you THINK you've got it all, you're wrong in every case, and the car will continue to rot. Today's lesson should be don't buy Yankee cars period. People up there are generally less handy and don't care about their vehicles and thusly the cars get neglected. Rich folk in Jersey don't even pump their own fuel. What do you want to bet they don't know where their oil dipstick is either. Not baggin on Jersey but hey. So- you flat out KNOW they are not going to take the time to be concerned about the underbody as out of sight means out of mind. It IS possible to have a car in the northeast that doesn't rust IF you WASH the damn thing and keep an eye out on the chassis! JMH your car looks like it was never washed underneath and that's why it rusted so bad. Incomplete care.
If I were you I would lose the jalopy NOW and just drive one of your other six cars until you find a better example preferably from the SOUTH. Best cars come from Arizona or New Mexico. Otherwise you are in for a protracted car-fixing nightmare ordeal that will drag you and your savings into a great depression. Plus you get to think about all the other issues aside from bodywork that cancerpuppy's got. Even if you say it's otherwise perfect we know better. Even if you fix it 'properly' will it ever drive as solid as before? I think not. That car looks like rotten swiss cheese under there.
Good luck and never buy a w123 again unless you check it out thoroughly beforehand.
If you really want to fix why not cannibalize your other w123 for sheet metal. If you did all the zizz-wheel and sawzall work yourself you might save some coin. Huge pain in the neck however.

[Hatterasguy]

The thing with the undercoating MB used its it hides most of the rust, its like an iceberg really. You only see a small part poking up. If you got that car up on a lift and started peeling it back you would probably find a lot.

First I'd see if the guy you bought it from would take it back, even if you have to take a little hit. Never hurts to ask.

The most important thing for me when looking at a car I plan on owning a long time, and its essential for a car I want to restore is no rust. Spend $1k and have a W123 shipped to you from CA, or another dry state.


Start with good bones, because a rusty car will always be that no matter what you do to it.

My next keeper MB will be from a very dry state, probably southern CA.

[rchase]

Originally Posted by junqueyardjim

I think Tom's advice of taking the guy to our local Small Claims Court is really a good route to follow. That is if you find talking to the seller is like peeing into the wind. Our member has not stated how much he spent for the car. And perhaps he does not wish to disclose that information. However, without knowing the dollars involved at this point, I find it rather hard to resolve in my mind as to whether or not I would advise him to repair it.

Not really a good idea. Its likely you would loose since there are no laws about the private sale of used vehicles and commonly known that you should inspect a car before buying it. Filing a case and loosing just means more money down the drain. Take that money and fix the car and stop whining about a potentially small problem on what sounds like a really beautiful car.

Its really a shame that everyone here claims to love MB cars right up until a big repair bill comes in and then everyone runs to trade in or ditch the cars. If you love your cars so much then FIX THEM. If your too cheap to fix your car then you should not have a three pointed star on your hood. Go get a Lexus and be done with it.

[JimSmith]

If you can get a refund from the guy of $1,000 or so, I would fix it. This site (www.dbdepot.de) can ship you the parts for the entire floor and depending how much you need the work may not be that expensive. The rockers are available for under $300 or so. If you can handle removing the mechanical stuff and the interior, you might be pleasantly surprised. And there really is nothing better than knowing you have a truly rust free structure. Jim

[rchase]

Originally Posted by JimSmith

If you can get a refund from the guy of $1,000 or so, I would fix it. This site (www.dbdepot.de) can ship you the parts for the entire floor and depending how much you need the work may not be that expensive. The rockers are available for under $300 or so. If you can handle removing the mechanical stuff and the interior, you might be pleasantly surprised. And there really is nothing better than knowing you have a truly rust free structure. Jim

Dunno if your going to be able to collect from the seller but thats a great idea. Just to put this into perspective for you guys. The 722.6 Transmission in my 140 is about a $4500 job for a rebuild. Makes fixing rust seem cheap in comparison.

[Bruce Kennedy]

[quote=rchase;1485913]Not really a good idea. Its likely you would loose since there are no laws about the private sale of used vehicles and commonly known that you should inspect a car before buying it. Filing a case and loosing just means more money down the drain. Take that money and fix the car and stop whining about a potentially small problem on what sounds like a really beautiful car.

Its really a shame that everyone here claims to love MB cars right up until a big repair bill comes in and then everyone runs to trade in or ditch the cars. If you love your cars so much then FIX THEM. If your too cheap to fix your car then you should not have a three pointed star on your hood. Go get a Lexus and be done with it.[/quote

That kind of rust is not a small problem. Were talking about a 300D, not some rare car that should be saved. The reason most of us like these cars is because they are cheap to buy and cheap to maintain. I dont work on my car because I like to, I do it because I dont want to pay someone else to do it, and if I am doing the work I want the car to be simple. That is why these cars appeal to so many, Cheap and Simple!
And another thing, cars are inanimate objects. They dont have feelings and they dont love you back!

If you havent guessed, I dont name my cars!

[JimSmith]

I went through this with my son on his (formerly my) 1986 190E 2.3-16. He replaced all four fenders and the underbody (floors and rockers). He did some of the preparations and reassembly, but the underbody parts were not the heavy cost. No real finishing required - just paint with POR 15 and then undercoating and painting the inside - so it is not the time consuming and costly part of the job. Even the body parts were relatively less costly than the more visible fenders. The most expensive stuff, by the way, were the plastic spoiler parts.

Once you get going on one of these jobs though you will find yourself changing brake lines, and doing some rewiring. All good stuff and stuff you can do yourself.

This all assumes the stuff that looks good is good. I would caution you to check that out carefully especially around the wheel wells.

But a car with no rust from MB's W123 line is something special. Jim

[rchase]

Originally Posted by Bruce Kennedy

That kind of rust is not a small problem. Were talking about a 300D, not some rare car that should be saved. The reason most of us like these cars is because they are cheap to buy and cheap to maintain. I dont work on my car because I like to, I do it because I dont want to pay someone else to do it, and if I am doing the work I want the car to be simple. That is why these cars appeal to so many, Cheap and Simple!
And another thing, cars are inanimate objects. They dont have feelings and they dont love you back!

If you havent guessed, I dont name my cars!

Yes your right 300D's are quite common but with the biodiesel craze and owners that have a disposable cheap attitude like you do they will become less and less common. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Your going to have to do "something". Trashing a car that runs well and looks presentable and is a good driver over rust (which you have not even looked at the extent of) is really silly. While you might have alluded to the fact that I talk to my cars (which I do!) your solution to your problem is just as emotional because you feel ripped off. Why take it out on the car? If your truly interested in your financial stake in the car why not run the numbers and accurately determine your best position rather than being dramatic and emotional?

Its really a shame that decent cars end up in the hands of not very decent owners. If you want a soul less cheap to maintain reliable car go buy a Honda. Many Mercedes owners out there truly love their cars. Any older MB represents the years of service visits and repairs that an owner has sunk into a car well above its financial value. One of the reasons why no one looks bad in an older Mercedes is because of the care that many Mercedes owners lavish on their cars regardless of their age. Face it nobody likes a cheapskate.