W114 engine swap ideas

[Admiral Ahani]

Oh, and I thought the w114 had the same diff (maybe different ratios, depending on model) as the w116, w123, early w126. If they could handle the power and torque of a 5.0 M117, I think the diff could handle our new engine (er, I hope). The ones with lower ratios (taller) have less teeth per cog, and therefore thicker teeth. And these taller units were always mated to the engines that needed taller gears anyway, so the thicker (stronger) teeth were just a perfect match.

So maybe we should put a v8 differential into the w114.

I've never heard of the 6.9 diff being stronger or special in any way, except for its unique 2.65:1 ratio. And those things are subjected to 400 ft lb of torque.

[rbtoj]

I don't know about the rear end.
The problem could be the front subframe. If I'm not mistaken, it is the same one that was later used in the r107, where it din't like the weight of the v8's very much. I'd reinforce the front subframe like the recall procedure for the r107.

[zohar.melamed]

https://www.facebook.com/theoldmercguy/posts/1577843529003393


W114 280 1974 light ivory
W108 280SE 3.5 1972 pine green metallic
R107 500SL 1984 champagne metallic

[Admiral Ahani]

Originally Posted by Tomguy

Frank: I forgot about first-gen Intrepids (and others) with the 3.3. According to Allpar, that 3.3 and 3.8 started in 1990, not related to an earlier design. I also forgot that Chrysler made a 4.0 version of the 3.5 V6, and put it in the Nitro, longitudinally, attached to a Benz 5 speed (NAG1) trans. Not much more HP than a 3.5, but more usable torque, and already attached to a RWD transmission.

I can measure how wide my Hemi in my Jeep is if you're feeling really daring! Haha.

Thinking about this option more. I looked up the Dodge Nitro, and it seems they had a 6-speed manual (not 5-speed), as an option to the automatic, and I think this was the same manual that can be found in the Crossfire, the NSG370. Crossfire 6-speed boxes are popular for owners of M113 engines because they're a direct bolt-on. So if I'm talking about a 90-degree Dodge v6 with this MB transmission, why not talk about the Mercedes M112, or even better, the M113, instead? But those won't fit into the car easily so it's a no-go.

My friend is really incapable of coping with annoyances. I don't want to have the headers hitting the frame because they're too close, and I don't want rock hard motor mounts that make the whole car vibrate.



I went to the junkyard to take some measurements. The M113 is about 24" wide at the valve covers, and about 26" wide at the widest part of the exhaust headers. A 560SEL M117 was 26" at the valve covers and 28.5" at the headers. (All approximate measurements, with tape measure and eye-ball).

This guy
1976 Mercedes 240D M117 5.5 liter | Retro Rides
did get a 560SEL engine to fit, by making custom low-profile headers. It's still too tight for me, but maybe the smaller M113 (or dodge v6 / etc) with something like this could work.

I am interested in seeing high performance M110s, M103s and M104s though. Using a mercedes straight 6 just seems so much easier. There's no space issue, and I can keep the matching transmission. I'm sure the m103/104 will need a tailshaft mod but that's not hard.

2JZ is a legend, but the NA version makes about as much power as an M104 so I might as well stick with MB. Unless it responds to NA tuning much better than the M104, but I feel like if I asked the internet how to NA tune a 2JZ, the internet would laugh at me and tell me to turbo it.

[Admiral Ahani]

Oh yeah, and the car's frame rails are 25.5 inches apart at the narrowest part (which is right where the headers would be).

[Frank Reiner]

Originally Posted by Admiral Ahani

Thinking about this option more. I looked up the Dodge Nitro, and it seems they had a 6-speed manual (not 5-speed), as an option to the automatic, and I think this was the same manual that can be found in the Crossfire, the NSG370. Crossfire 6-speed boxes are popular for owners of M113 engines because they're a direct bolt-on. So if I'm talking about a 90-degree Dodge v6 with this MB transmission, why not talk about the Mercedes M112, or even better, the M113, instead? But those won't fit into the car easily so it's a no-go.

AA:

The Dodge V6s are 60-degree engines; that was the point of mentioning them; they are narrower than most OHC V8s.
For good performance "feel", displacement is the thing, hence the 302 Ford. It is about 24" across the exh. manifolds.

[Admiral Ahani]

Hi Frank,

I got a little sidetracked thinking about Diamler-Chrysler v6s again when I heard of the 6-speed transmission and started thinking of the Chrysler Crossfire (M112 v6). Do you happen to know how wide the Dodge v6 engines are?



So let's talk about a Ford v8. (Or maybe any American engine in general.)

Would the sound of a 302 coming out of a W114 be nice, or weird?

I remember from lurking W123 threads that Ford v8s have sumps in the front, so they should fit into a Mercedes engine bay. Do we KNOW if it would fit? What about a transmission (auto or manual)?

An American v8 in a Mercedes: I know a lot of people are purists, and that's not what I'm worried about, but in general, would a 302 be interesting and cool?

I'm not a strict purist, and I actually like American iron, but I can't help but be worried that any time we tell someone what's under the hood of the fast W114, they'll either say "sacrilege" or "yep, 'merican muscle, welcome to the club of everyone!"

I've been discussing it with my friend Sean and figuring out exactly what he wants. It's kind of evolved into what we both want, because he realizes I'm helping a lot (i.e. doing all the hard work ) so he wants not just the raw performance, but also something that would be popular among Mercedes enthusiasts like you all and myself. I've seen US v8s in W123s, and they're not common because they usually get little love from others.

So in a nutshell, he wants the car to be fast, but still get the love of the MB enthusiast crowd.

BTW, he loves the 302 engine.

[Don Andres]

I know, it's an older post but which way did you go? I'm looking for engine options for a W114 as well.

[cth350]

sounds like you want an M104 from a mid-90s car. The performance paddock has plenty of M104 turbo threads. Getting a narrow-enough 5-speed standard is doable too. Megasquirt would be one of the easier approaches to getting fuel to it.

-CTH

[Admiral Ahani]

Going to put the stock engine back in and mod it. Already found euro headers, then gonna convert to TBI with megasquirt, and eventually port injection. Hopefully we won't need more power, but turbo is always a possibility.

It boiled down to the fact that no V engines would fit unless they were totally not the right character for the car (i.e. American), there's no point in less than 6 cylinders, and if we're going with a straight 6, there's not enough advantage in an M103/104 to warrant the conversion from the M110.

However, we have diverted our creative efforts towards a manual trans conversion. Have 0 progress towards this, but it's on the agenda.

[zohar.melamed]

I converted my M110 equipped W114 to fitech TBI. Not too complicated and transforms the car.

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[alabbasi]

A fuel injected M110 has 185hp. You'll need to find an earlier d-jet one to fit a W114 chassis and preferably out of a 107 or W114. They're quick.

If you want quicker, source an early M104 from an R129 which will have CIS. They make 230hp. I have a 300SL with that motor and a 5 speed dog leg manual gearbox and it's plenty quick, smooth and will rev to 7000rpm. I've been kicking the idea around of stuffing that drive train into a W114 myself. As it's CIS, there's less complication with wiring for the fuel injection.

[Dms114]

Originally Posted by Don Andres

I know, it's an older post but which way did you go? I'm looking for engine options for a W114 as well.

Did you ever decided which motor you wanna go for it

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[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by Frank Reiner

AA:

Not only is the engine bay narrow, but so is the transmission tunnel.
If you depart from MB transmissions there is a considerable likelihood of doing floor modification.
The narrowest of US V8s is the pushrod Ford 289/302 series. The AOD transmission that mates with those engines does not require any electronics, but will need a bit of floor bashing to provide clearance at the right front corner of the tunnel.

60 degree V6s are also narrow, but a bit tall.

i have always thought the ford would be a nice fit. I think that 560 might be fairly good too but will take some tweaking. I had a 500 SEC which externally should be very similar to the 560. I suspect the exhaust manifolds might be narrower on the 500 than the 560.

AS far as having the same subframe, this is true but the engine sits further back in the SL than in the 114. I think you're gonna have trouble with the pan.

I'm sure it can be done but at what cost?

If that 280 is running right it is a pretty quick combination for its day.

As for the crossfire engine it is a mb engine and is used in no other mopars that I am aware of. Nice combination with the six speed though as Frank pointed out the size of the tranny might be an issue. It will really wind up!

[Tomguy]

Originally Posted by Dms114

Did you ever decided which motor you wanna go for it

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Originally Posted by Admiral Ahani

Going to put the stock engine back in and mod it. Already found euro headers, then gonna convert to TBI with megasquirt, and eventually port injection. Hopefully we won't need more power, but turbo is always a possibility.

It boiled down to the fact that no V engines would fit unless they were totally not the right character for the car (i.e. American), there's no point in less than 6 cylinders, and if we're going with a straight 6, there's not enough advantage in an M103/104 to warrant the conversion from the M110.

However, we have diverted our creative efforts towards a manual trans conversion. Have 0 progress towards this, but it's on the agenda.

That was his reply from about 3 years ago, I'd assume either by now OP would have progress or moved on. It'd be interesting to know, though.