280se m130 versus 280se 4.5

[moby dick]

Right after I bought my 280se with an M130, I test drove a 450se W116. I think I could get used to V8 power and exhaust note !

Since then I've driven 3 280se 4.5s locally and have come away disappointed every time. None of them seem to run well -they all stumble and have flat spots etc. Why is it so hard to find a V8 that runs well? I am not looking at beaters. All three looked like decent drivers and had asking prices of $8K or higher.

Yes, the V8 makes lots of low end torque that allows such relaxed gearing, but with that gearing, it doesn't feel that much faster than a 2.8. It is a much more relaxed cruiser for sure.

As for handling, I can clearly notice the extra weight in front at turn in. All three v8 cars felt heavy and slow to respond. On the other hand, my 2.8 feels like a much lighter car -though no one's going to mistake it for an M3 or a 911. My 2.8 280se handles about the same as a new VW passat (discounting the higher limits of the VW due to its lower profile modern rubber) which is pretty impressive, considering 40 years separate these 2 cars and the VW is 200lbs lighter.

So here's my question... Do I really want a 280se 4.5? Is it possible to find one that runs well? The 450se w116 ran great and was addictive. I was picturing that the 280se 4.5 should be the same.

Oh BTW, the 450se was a euro spec car with different spec cams, no emissions and not much options to weigh it down. Also my '69 280se 2.8 is pretty light with manual everything and no sunroof...

This was today's disappointment!!!
Classic 1972 Mercedes 280SE 4.5 - $8000 (san jose downtown)

This 1977 450se euro I test drove 4 months ago is still for sale...
1977 Mercedes Benz 450SE - $8000 (san jose north)

It runs great... but it's brown and has some rust and the interior smells like it was damp at some point... And it handles like a big boat just like the 3 280se 4.5s... The seller is a really nice guy BTW, seems very honest
Narayan

[Palolo]

Originally Posted by moby dick

It runs great... but it's brown

And the problem with brown is what, exactly?

My Tobacco Brown 108 resembles that remark!

[moby dick]

Brown is an interesting color on an s class. On one hand it looks fabulous on w108s with bundts, especially the rare 15" bundts. It looks okay with hubcaps. But on a w116 it's not so pretty...

I'm still searching for one foot. Where could it be

Originally Posted by Palolo

And the problem with brown is what, exactly?

My Tobacco Brown 108 resembles that remark!

[moby dick]

Also, I'd like to apologize for using runs and brown in the same sentence.

[Palolo]

Originally Posted by moby dick

Also, I'd like to apologize for using runs and brown in the same sentence.

Apologize? Be proud!

I hear ya on the brown 116s. That color was way past its sell by date by then.

Originally Posted by moby dick

Brown is an interesting color on an s class. On one hand it looks fabulous on w108s with bundts, especially the rare 15" bundts.

[WANT '71 280SEL]

That 108 is way overpriced. Also, as you said, it wasn't running correctly. I think if you drive a properly running 108 with a 4.5 you'll stick with the V8. There's lots of info on here regarding getting a 4.5 running right. That car probably needs the trigger points cleaned.

Best Regards,

David

[JimFreeh]

Regardless of the engine, the condition of the car is the critical factor.

Weathered, and/or needy W108s can eat you alive with little chance of getting your money back if you sell.

If I were looking for a W108, I'd place more emphasis on color/condition/options over the engine. Both the M130 and the M117 are fine machines.

Jim

[mercmad6.3]

A M117 5.0 liter would make a nice swap into a 4.5 if you find a good one with a bad running engine .The alloy block engine is only slightly heavier than the M130 six too. Thw 4.5 was a USA only engine which was made larger (3.5 originally) to counteract the lower compression ratio and mild cam timing required to meet USA only smog requirements in the 1970's. Everyone else got real performing V8 with the 280SE 3.5's.

[Tomguy]

The 4.5 is a nice engine (or at least was in my 4.5), it wasn't the fastest off the line but I'd never say it felt "Flat" except when it had issues. Improper timing (too late), improper dwell (point gap), low fuel pressure, incorrect mixture, dirty trigger points, and clogged fuel filters would all result in a 4.5 feeling "Gutless". It could be any of these, or a combination thereof, causing the issues you seem to have run across. The best test of a 4.5 IMO is driving ~75-80, if you floor it, it should kick down into 2nd and have plenty of oomph in the high-RPM range to get to ~95 before it shifts back into 3rd. If you seem to run out of steam & can't easily go from 80 to 95 in second, the engine is out of tune. I know because mine was out of tune every now and again and that's how I could tell.

Oh, my 4.5 did also feel gutless when I tried 87 octane in it, I'd imagine that has only become worse with 10% crapanol gas. I'd suggest trying 91 octane minimum, see if that makes a difference. I know they aren't your cars but if it's got a quarter tank of 87, maybe some fresh 93 would help!

[white280SE]

Hi guys I got a 6cyl 280 from Santa Cruz some 5 years ago and I wished I had had a v8 always buying the sensible car not the rip snorter but in all honesty I think the 6cly is the better one..




Reasons as follows

It's bascily a lorry engine slow plodder and makes for nice smooth running.

Lighter on the front end for driving around town.

more reliable ( well don't ask me that 3 years ago )



So as much as I would love to have a V8 I don't miss heavy steering, expensive parts x 2 alot of V8's do need top end rebuilds that I have come across and that's twice the price in parts and there not cheap..

if my engine gives me grief long term then it's going in favour of a modern day V8 Mercedes engine as per anumber of cars in Germany that have gone this way and they are amazing car to say the least.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by moby dick

Right after I bought my 280se with an M130, I test drove a 450se W116. I think I could get used to V8 power and exhaust note !

Since then I've driven 3 280se 4.5s locally and have come away disappointed every time. None of them seem to run well -they all stumble and have flat spots etc. Why is it so hard to find a V8 that runs well? I am not looking at beaters. All three looked like decent drivers and had asking prices of $8K or higher.

Yes, the V8 makes lots of low end torque that allows such relaxed gearing, but with that gearing, it doesn't feel that much faster than a 2.8. It is a much more relaxed cruiser for sure.

As for handling, I can clearly notice the extra weight in front at turn in. All three v8 cars felt heavy and slow to respond. On the other hand, my 2.8 feels like a much lighter car -though no one's going to mistake it for an M3 or a 911. My 2.8 280se handles about the same as a new VW passat (discounting the higher limits of the VW due to its lower profile modern rubber) which is pretty impressive, considering 40 years separate these 2 cars and the VW is 200lbs lighter.

So here's my question... Do I really want a 280se 4.5? Is it possible to find one that runs well? The 450se w116 ran great and was addictive. I was picturing that the 280se 4.5 should be the same.

Oh BTW, the 450se was a euro spec car with different spec cams, no emissions and not much options to weigh it down. Also my '69 280se 2.8 is pretty light with manual everything and no sunroof...

This was today's disappointment!!!
Classic 1972 Mercedes 280SE 4.5 - $8000 (san jose downtown)

This 1977 450se euro I test drove 4 months ago is still for sale...
1977 Mercedes Benz 450SE - $8000 (san jose north)

It runs great... but it's brown and has some rust and the interior smells like it was damp at some point... And it handles like a big boat just like the 3 280se 4.5s... The seller is a really nice guy BTW, seems very honest
Narayan

As far as engine performance is concerned, your '69 280SE and that Euro 450SE, are about the best versions of those respective engines to have. Especially if the 'manual everything' in your 280SE includes a stickshift, I'd hang on to it.
A friend that once owned one of those with a 4-speed stick told me "These cars feel 500 pounds lighter with a stickshift"!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[alabbasi]

You should be able to smoke the tires on any 4.5 W108. If you're not able to, then there's a problem with the ignition or fuel injection system. Which could be as simple as adjusting the points.

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

As far as engine performance is concerned, your '69 280SE and that Euro 450SE, are about the best versions of those respective engines to have. Especially if the 'manual everything' in your 280SE includes a stickshift, I'd hang on to it.
A friend that once owned one of those with a 4-speed stick told me "These cars feel 500 pounds lighter with a stickshift"!

Happy Motoring, Mark

Back in the mid 70's, I owned a 250SE with a four speed manual. Manual everything, but had A/C and an electric sunroof. Loved driving that car, but the lack of power steering required some strong arms in the parking lot.

One night, my roomate and I are rolling down the freeway at high speed, and I back off the throttle and see a shower of sparks blowing out the exhaust.

My roomate said "I think you need to sell this car.".

Yep, back then it wasn't worth spending money a W108, you could find a nice one for less than it might cost to fix yours.

I still miss that car, the manual made it special.

Jim

[moby dick]

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

As far as engine performance is concerned, your '69 280SE and that Euro 450SE, are about the best versions of those respective engines to have. Especially if the 'manual everything' in your 280SE includes a stickshift, I'd hang on to it.
A friend that once owned one of those with a 4-speed stick told me "These cars feel 500 pounds lighter with a stickshift"!

Happy Motoring, Mark

No it's an auto... It has a/c too. More like someone blowing cool air through a straw and you could just keep one person's face a little cooler....

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by JimFreeh

Back in the mid 70's, I owned a 250SE with a four speed manual. Manual everything, but had A/C and an electric sunroof. Loved driving that car, but the lack of power steering required some strong arms in the parking lot.

One night, my roomate and I are rolling down the freeway at high speed, and I back off the throttle and see a shower of sparks blowing out the exhaust.

My roomate said "I think you need to sell this car.".

Yep, back then it wasn't worth spending money a W108, you could find a nice one for less than it might cost to fix yours.

I still miss that car, the manual made it special.

Jim

It's strange the options (or lack of options) I've seen on some Mercedes. Back in the late '80s, I owned a '72 W115 4-cylinder 220. That car had AC automatic tranny, power-brakes and MANUAL STEERING.
The steering felt sloppy at speed, parking was a chore and with the automatic and AC going, it wasn't much peppier than some diesels.
I would've hung onto it, if it been a manual tranny with power-steering.
Shorly before I sold it, I fitted the power-steering from my 250C parts-car and it vastly improved the handling and parking - not to mention making it much easier to sell!

In the mid '70s my Dad owned a Euro 250SE with a 4-speed manual and power-steering, but no AC. Also it had Kangol shoulder-belts for the front seats, without lap belts! Nice car except for the rust.
In the late '90s I had the pleasure to test-drive a '69 280S, with a 4-speed manual COLUMNSHIFT. I really liked that one too. But sadly it wasn't for sale.
More recently, I did enjoy driving my columnshift-manual '60 Fintail for a few years, until rust and old-age finished her off.

Since those days, I've gotten into Mercedes diesels for their fuel-economy and reduced maintenance, but I really miss the smooth power of those old straight-sixes!

Happy Motoring, Mark