1968 280s questions (cost and repairs)

[cnm]

I am considering buying a 1968 280s (w108). The car is beautiful and drove great. Cruised smoothly at 75mph. The owner wouldn't come down from his $8000 asking price. I know it is a bit steep, but I prefer to deal with a local car and there aren't too many around my area this nice. I agreed to his price pending inspection and assuming the inspection didn't show repairs greater than $500.

I had the car inspected yesterday by a local Mercedes mechanic with good reviews. He said this car is in great shape and that he rarely sees them in this good of condition. No rust or body issues. 67,000 original miles.

I knew that the a/c needed a recharge, the brake booster may need replacing and the zenith dual carb had a small leak. However, I was told these repairs are extremely expensive:

Brake booster: $1000 for the part plus labor
Carburetor: has a leak, might can be rebuilt (no guarantee); a new carburetor cost $3000
A/C: couple hundred bucks for R134 recharge/convert from r12 – then check for leaks
Heater fan: needs replacing, $400 for part plus labor

Some other issues he noticed that can wait for now:

Head Gasket leaking
Fuel pump housing gasket leak
Heater control knob broken
Front crank seal leak

After hearing his prices, I told the owner I couldnt go through with the sale with the price he was asking. I planned to get back with him sometime this week about a possible counteroffer. I checked on some of the part prices and they seem outrageous. The mechanic didnt even mention possibly switching to a Weber carb. I found a conversion kit for less than a grand:

Mercedes Benz 220 230 250 280 Weber carb conversion kit | eBay

Also, I found new brake boosters for less than $250:

Brake Power Booster | AutoZone.com

Family Car - Auto Parts and Accessories Catalog - Mercedes Benz 280s A1_cardone Brake Booster

Assuming these parts will work for the car, the prices are not too bad (at least not bad enough to scare me away from the purchase). What do yall think?

Also, the mechanic said to not use the car as a daily driver. He said this is a car to put it in a garage, drive it every other Saturday and give it to your kid in 30 years. I put less than 4000 miles a year on a car and have backup transportation if need be, so I think this can be a daily driver with no problem. Any experience with w108s as daily drivers?

Thanks

[bwostosh]

The one low mileage car should not be the daily,
get a lesser body quality and daily drive it.

note: ALL 40 yr old soft parts need replacing.
Those leaks are going to fru$trate you.
Consider the cost of the 4 door seals and 2 windows.
Consider the cost of the seat pads.
Consider that every gasket and seal will leak after fourty years.
You do not need to change carbs, just reseal them
The seals and gaskets are cheap, the labor isn't,
(well, I work for free on my cars)
I rebuilt a 220SE gas cap to radiator cap hub cap to hubcap
about 400-450 hours
It started a few leaks after 5 yrs.
I have lived 30 yrs with these MBZ's and never have owned a car newer than 1972. No reason to, these are good and cheap cars overall.

[twinockchef]

The best way to reduce overall cost is doing a lot of the work yourself. The booster replacement is very easy to do. I would be more worried about your mecanic charging $1000 (too high) for the booster and only $500 (too low) for the heater fan. The fan can easly require 6-8 hours of labor (the whole dash has be removed).
Why is the owners asking price so high for all of the repairs needed. Honesty you could easly be looking at spending at least $5000 (bare minimum) and upwards to $8000 to get it to be a solid reliable auto.

[JMela]

Got the same year and model, it's pretty thirsty for daily driver duty. $8k is a pretty dear for anything other than an exceptionally clean car without issues. They are nice driving cars that are (mostly) simple to work on with good parts availability. Keep us posted.

* inop heater fan might be due to an iffy blower switch.

[Palolo]

Originally Posted by cnm

I am considering buying a 1968 280s (w108). The car is beautiful and drove great.

What do yall think?

Also, the mechanic said to not use the car as a daily driver. He said this is a car to put it in a garage, drive it every other Saturday and give it to your kid in 30 years.

Any experience with w108s as daily drivers?

Thanks

Nice find.

Your mechanic is 100% correct, this is not a daily driver. For the reasons mentioned above, and also: it would be horrendous to insure (with your typical daily-driver insurance company) as a daily driver. One (even minor) crunch, and it is totaled in their eyes.

You can get good classic car stated-value insurance, but then you cannot use it as a daily driver.

Someone mentioned gas. It will go through a lot of gas as a daily driver... And it'll just get all beat up on the road (and in parking lots) with how others treat others' cars these days.

Your mechanic hit it, bullseye: "He said this is a car to put it in a garage, drive it every other Saturday and give it to your kid in 30 years." That's how I would appreciate a well-kept 108 survivor. No use in torturing it daily. There are a ton of better suited, cheaper, cars on your local (where are you??) Craigslist.

Oh yeah: another reason not to drive it daily: rust (or the potential for). This car didn't get this far this nice if it was driven daily. It was well kept and preserved. Being on the road will likely start the death spiral, as it will have needs and expenses, and the only thing that has kept its bills being paid is "it is worth it" to the current owner because it looks great, and is a fine example.

I'm glad I have a few options to drive if the weather is crappy, or if I have to go somewhere I'd rather not park my 108... So hopefully in 15 years I can give it to my 5 year old son. Wait, make that 20 years.

He will have to sign a "no bagged suspension or fart can" contract first, though. Hahaha!

[cnm]

I am definitely planning on trying to do some work myself. However, after the inspection, the costs of the parts gave me cause for concern. The mechanic quoted the parts at $1000 for the booster, $500 for heater fan and $3000 for the carburetor; not including labor. Those prices seemed a bit steep, especially after seeing the prices in the links above. If i can get the parts for cheaper, it makes the car seem a bit more reasonable.

Before I could counter, the owner emailed tonight and said he could probably do $6000 if I was still interested. That seems a bit more doable.

Am I really looking at $5000 minimum in repairs? The mechanic said the leaks were minor. Other than those issues, the car was in great shape and drove amazing.

[cnm]

Originally Posted by Palolo

Nice find.

Your mechanic is 100% correct, this is not a daily driver. For the reasons mentioned above, and also: it would be horrendous to insure (with your typical daily-driver insurance company) as a daily driver. One (even minor) crunch, and it is totaled in their eyes.

You can get good classic car stated-value insurance, but then you cannot use it as a daily driver.

Someone mentioned gas. It will go through a lot of gas as a daily driver... And it'll just get all beat up on the road (and in parking lots) with how others treat others' cars these days.

Your mechanic hit it, bullseye: "He said this is a car to put it in a garage, drive it every other Saturday and give it to your kid in 30 years." That's how I would appreciate a well-kept 108 survivor. No use in torturing it daily. There are a ton of better suited, cheaper, cars on your local (where are you??) Craigslist.

Oh yeah: another reason not to drive it daily: rust (or the potential for). This car didn't get this far this nice if it was driven daily. It was well kept and preserved. Being on the road will likely start the death spiral, as it will have needs and expenses, and the only thing that has kept its bills being paid is "it is worth it" to the current owner because it looks great, and is a fine example.

I'm glad I have a few options to drive if the weather is crappy, or if I have to go somewhere I'd rather not park my 108... So hopefully in 15 years I can give it to my 5 year old son. Wait, make that 20 years.

He will have to sign a "no bagged suspension or fart can" contract first, though. Hahaha!

Thanks for the response. Im located in Nashville. I have been looking for an older Mercedes; I have also been looking at BMW 2002s. I figure I could get a car like my wife's (2009 ford fusion, 30K miles) for about $13,000-14000. However, I am just not a fan of newer style sedans. If i can get a good looking classic for $6000 and have to put several thousand dollars into keeping it up, I am no worse off compared to the cost of a newish sedan.

I also looked at some w123s but I didnt care for them (at least the ones I tested). While I dont want to trash a beautiful w108, is that really what 3000-4000 miles a year will do? I have heard of several people onthis and other forums using 108s as daily drivers. Again, thanks for everyone's input.

[JMela]

$3k for a new carb isn't accurate (there are two = $6k?) as youre not going to find new units for purchase. Not a problem to find used carbs (for a couple hundred, tops) and to rebuild them. I'd go so far to say if it were shot, you wouldn't be traveling smoothly at 70 mph. Current ones can likely be tweaked to work.

Look in the trunk wheel wells under the plastic mat for commonly found rust/ price bargaining leverage.

[pedrocamp]

I drive my 68 230 almost daily and find it cheaper to run parts wise than the late model Passat I used to drive... as long as you can do most of the work yourself. The prices quoted by your mechanic are quite high. The carburators are easily rebuildable as are most things on the car. You can take apart most everything on these cars for service, I have taken apart switches to clean the contacts for example, can't do that with the newer cars. Drive the Benz, get classic car insurance and a cheap beater for those rainy/snow days.

[socalbenz]

Originally Posted by cnm

Some other issues he noticed that can wait for now:

Head Gasket leaking...

I would want to know more about the leaky head gasket. That does not sound like a minor issue to me.

[Tomguy]

I used my 108 4.5 as a daily driver while in college. It was already very rusty from years of DD use, and I would not suggest using a clean rust-free 108 (or 111, 112, 109, etc) as a DD. They were made with Italian steel and rain and snow (and salt, road debris, etc) are a death sentence - or at least something that will result in a lot of work needing to be done down the road to repair rust.

Don't expect good fuel economy even though it's a smaller engine. It has no overdrive and revs high on freeways, so it'll consume gas. With a short commute you might not care. I didn't buy any of my current cars with fuel economy on my mind. It will be a VERY sharp and fun car, but I wouldn't suggest using it to DD unless it's already rusty and in need of work, in which case you're not killing a perfect survivor, but keeping an otherwise death-sentenced car alive

But, as described by the issues your mechanic has found, head gasket leak included, it's a $2-3k car, factoring in the increasing value of rust-free runners.

[twinockchef]

I completely disagree with Palolo on 108s not being good daily drivers. All cars run better if driven on a regular basis. I find my insurance on my 108 and 111 to be less expensive than my wifes 2008 R 320 and thats high Texas rates. Most insurance policies allow you to establish the stated value of any auto. I currently have a $40000 value on my 111 and it is my daily driver (12000 miles a year). The only thing that bothers me is dents and chips especially on the front end.
I like the 2.8L six cylinder engines because you can get about 16-17 mpg. The 3.5L - 4.5L V8 engines have a higher fuel consumption. But you have to consider the fact that you could spend $30000 completely restoring a 108, 109, 111, or a 113 which is less for most new cars and have an absolutely amazing car. They are simple cars to maintain and repair and with proper care it will last 40 more years where as every 2012 car wil not be around in 40 years and it will not drain your pocket book.

The issue of rust. Every car which is driving on salted roads will eventually have problems with rust. No car is immune for it. There are products out there which greatly help in reducing the harsh effects of de-icing products but you have to remain vigilant.

The bottom line is that you have to find a car which you like. Make sure it has a solid chassis, good interior, and a sound engine. Seals, rubber, gaskets, trim, and carpet can all be replaced with brand new OEM parts from Mercedes. Mercedes Club members get great discounts from dealerships and the Classic Center.

[cnm]

Thanks again for the responses. I am getting the car tomorrow for $6000 and am pretty excited about it! I called the mechanic again today to ask (outside the presence of the seller) what must be fixed today. His response: just the brake booster. The more I dug, the more it sounded like he initially wanted to scare me away from the car because I wanted to use it as a daily and he thought it should sit in a garage, only driven sparingly. He said that all 44 year old cars have some leaks but there was no issue with this car regarding any leak right now. Even the carburetor leak that I noticed he said was minor; that if the car was running great now dont worry about it and come back if it starts to present any problems. Frankly, after speaking with him today, I am not even sure there is a head gasket leak. I plan to have another mechanic check it out as well.

I also heard from a BMW 2002 expert in town that was helping me search for a bimmer (who also runs an antique euro car museum) who said that he thought daily driving was good for a vehicle as it keeps seals swollen, lubricants flowing and acids out of the oil. I will be keeping the car I have had since I was 16 for rain/snow days.

The first thing I plan to do is replace the brake booster. Although I have never done this repair myself, I think I may give it a shot. Can anyone tell me if this is a correct brake booster or if you know of a good one under $500:

Family Car - Auto Parts and Accessories Catalog - Mercedes Benz 280s A1_cardone Brake Booster

[Palolo]

Originally Posted by twinockchef

I completely disagree with Palolo on 108s not being good daily drivers.

Ah, but we are Benz (and old car) enthusiasts who can DIY a lot more than the average car owner. I do think that old cars can be driven daily, but one has to posses either the $ to do so, or skills to do so...

Seeing the cars you own/ed shows that you can DD almost anything...but for a first time vintage car owner, hopping in to a 108 with issues like a leaky head gasket and possible carb issues, who is relying on a mechanic to rectify problems (and grease the chassis' 18 grease points regularly), it is a different proposition. A simple DIY job for us would be a steep (and possibly expensive) learning curve for someone who picks up a 108 to drive daily...

[alabbasi]

I think he may be mistaking valve cover gasket with head gasket. Else his mechanic needs to be shot for not mentioning it