1961 190b-Questions - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mbgingerbread · #1 03-14-2009, 10:07 PM

I was told quite a few years ago that the 190b had a roof able to withstand a force of 20,000lbs. and that the engine was cradled in a 2 part frame which would prevent the motor from coming into the passenger area by forcing it under the car in the event of a head-on collision.
I have come across a 61 Ponton 190b and am curious as to the opinion of the forum members regarding it's long range collectabilty and whether this vehicle really is simpler, more substantial and a less complex automobile than the later models of four passenger cars offered by MB.
Thanks,
Turner

wbain5280 · #2 03-15-2009, 02:30 AM

You're thinking about the Fintail 190. The Pontons are simple, so check the Ponton homepage, lots of good info.

http://www.mbzponton.org/

mbgingerbread · #3 03-15-2009, 08:28 AM

Hello Wbain;
I am confused: I had a 61 220sb which had fins. The car I am looking at is being sold as a 1961 but it's obvious-no fins. Do you think that this car was titled as a 61 in spite of the fact that according to the Ponton page the 190b was produced from 1956-59?
Turner

t walgamuth · #4 03-15-2009, 08:31 AM

I had two fintails but never owned a ponton. I will say that in terms of simplicity the ponton is probably no simpler than the fintail. For a first timer (if you happen to be one) I would alert you on either car that it has king pins and no ball joints and these are items which can freeze and cause difficulties. The drive trains are similar.

If you choose a diesel the cars up through the 123 240d are very simple to service as well, probably simpler than the ponton actually.

In terms of safety I believe that each succeeding model of mb has become more and more safe, though I don't know about stacking 20K # on the roof or what the relevance of that actually is in terms of safety.

The single biggest drawback to fintails, pontons and the 115 which followed them is rust, so if you want one, find a rust free example as rust repair is not warranted by their potential resale value.

Lycoming-8 · #5 03-18-2009, 02:25 AM

Our 190Db was a 1961 model and is for certain not a Finner. I suspect that there is a typo on any data that shows the 190b or 190Db model stopping in 1959. Recently acquired a gasser 190b, and it is also a 1961 model. The b's, by the way, had the wide grille of the finners, but on the ponton body style instead of the more traditional narrow grille. The b's also had larger tail light assemblies with reflectors in the lower fifth part of the unit.

Downside to the pontons was the fact that they had drum brakes. Stopping power much inferior to the W115 220D/8 that came with 4whl discs!

t walgamuth · #6 03-18-2009, 06:03 AM

In 61 I believe they must have made pontons and finners. I had a 61 fintail which I parted out.

The discs may be superior but the drums are very good brakes too if in good shape.

Lycoming-8 · #7 03-19-2009, 12:40 AM

The reason I made the comment about the ponton drum brakes that I did was from personal experience. Had new shoes and factory linings arched to fit the drums and still had stopping issues without nearly standing up inside the car. Was like deja vu with my model 'A' Ford!! When I took the 220D thru the same circumstances it would nearly send you thru the windshield with minimal pedal force.

The other issue on the pontons was of course their use of only 13" wheels and the attendant smaller swept braking area. Give me 4whl discs!!

mercmad6.3 · #8 03-19-2009, 06:15 PM

The last ponton cars were built in August 1958. The USA had Studebaker as it's franchise holder. Studebaker made excellent cars but were lousy business people and had imported way too many cars. As a result sales of lesser cars like a 190 were SLOW. So what you have is a 1958 build car being sold in 1961 at knockdown price to clear because by 1961 the fintail or W111 had already been on the market for three years.
Do not ever go on the build date of a mercedes when ordering parts or even reffering to one,always use the chassis number as your guide.
If you are really interested in what year your car was actually built,go to the classic center in Irvine Cal. and order a 'birth certificate' for your car. It will have the actual build completion date for your car and if you really want to knwpo more you can get information as to what options may have been fitted when new.
As for safety,well it only goes to say that mercedes invented car safety and were and always will be ahead of the herd .All mercedes from 1950 have some measure of crumple zone protection as invented by Bella Berenyi at Daimler.
As the car is at least 50 years old,don't expect 2009 safety features.

mercmad6.3 · #9 03-19-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycoming-8

The reason I made the comment about the ponton drum brakes that I did was from personal experience. Had new shoes and factory linings arched to fit the drums and still had stopping issues without nearly standing up inside the car. Was like deja vu with my model 'A' Ford!! When I took the 220D thru the same circumstances it would nearly send you thru the windshield with minimal pedal force.

The other issue on the pontons was of course their use of only 13" wheels and the attendant smaller swept braking area. Give me 4whl discs!!

It takes real skill and patience to set up model A brakes ( i have done few...) and mercedes Drum brakes require even more patience to get working properly but in both cases the drum brakes provide more than ample stopping power . A ponton with the later Alfin drums ,while not a stoppable as a disc brake W111 will still work well in every day driving.

strelnik · #10 03-19-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbgingerbread

Hello Wbain;
I am confused: I had a 61 220sb which had fins. The car I am looking at is being sold as a 1961 but it's obvious-no fins. Do you think that this car was titled as a 61 in spite of the fact that according to the Ponton page the 190b was produced from 1956-59?
Turner

There is an overlap between pontons and Heckflkossen (fintails). You can even find 1962 180 gas cars and diesels with ponton bodies and later 190 gas and diesel engines! MB brought out the later gas and diesels the M121 and diesel OM621 series in response to the need for more power and acceleration. So some 180 series and 190 series have the later engines, pontons included.

1961 is the year of the change over. I have had 190 fintails and pontons, in fact I'm selling two diesel pontons since I have run out of room.

Trust me, unless they've been kablammed in an accident or rusted to death, they are sturdy.

strelnik

Lycoming-8 · #11 03-19-2009, 10:57 PM

Not sure where the data were found that indicate Pontons were produced only up thru 1959, because it clearly states that the 190Db was made from 1959 to 1962 in the Ponton site. See following link:

http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/other/overview.htm

It is possible, I guess, that there is confusion over the designations 190D and 190Db, as the 190D was made from Aug-1958 to Jul-1959. Where the 190Db was built from Jun-1959 to Sept-1961. There were other Pontons (SL's) made as late as 1963, as the Ponton site clearly states on it's home page.

And YES it was very important to either have the car IN the parts department or very close when ordering parts. I have had parts goofs claim that "MB never made one of those" until I took him out to the parking area and showed him the roundy body car with the wide grille !!!

t walgamuth · #12 03-20-2009, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycoming-8

The reason I made the comment about the ponton drum brakes that I did was from personal experience. Had new shoes and factory linings arched to fit the drums and still had stopping issues without nearly standing up inside the car. Was like deja vu with my model 'A' Ford!! When I took the 220D thru the same circumstances it would nearly send you thru the windshield with minimal pedal force.

The other issue on the pontons was of course their use of only 13" wheels and the attendant smaller swept braking area. Give me 4whl discs!!

If yours took that much effort something was wrong!

The wheels and brakes were small in diameter but proportional. Now if you put taller tires and or wheels on the car you would reduce the leverage of the brakes and their effectiveness.

mbgingerbread · #13 03-20-2009, 09:48 AM

Hi. All and thank you for the information.
One of those nagging questions is finally put to rest. I can see that the sale of some new 2007 vehicles here in 2009 is a good indicator of our retail environment of days passed.
I was cruising CraigsList and found this 1961 190B for sale in the Washington, DC area. May still be available and it looked OK. After comparison (Hemmings, etc.) the price seemed high.
Turner