Comparison of vintage luxury cars

[michaeld]

I recently purchased another old car. It's a '73 Pontiac Grand ville - which is basically a highly optioned Bonneville (same body, etc.).

I thought I'd write a post comparing the two cars. After all, my 77 450SEL and this Pontiac are both luxury cars from the same basic era. As it turns out, I learned more about the pluses and limitations of both cars than I would have had I not had one or the other.

When it comes to sheer engine power, the Pontiac is the clear winner. We're talking about a little bit of advantage for the Pontiac: 455 c.i. (that's 7.5L for you Euros!) vs. 4.5L (276 c.i.). It's a 8.5:1 compression engine, running stock at 300 horsepower (with the dual exhaust option) and 390 ft/lbs of torque. It accelerates like a freight train; right away and quickly thereafter. If I wanted to, I could rather easily add a quick and cheap 50 horsepower by swapping cylinder heads from a pre-70 400 or 455 Pontiac (ALL the cylinder heads swap out on the big Pontiac engines) - and instantly run at 11:1 compression. I don't see any reason to do that, but, you know, it's nice to know I could if the bug bit me. US big block engines are easy and relatively cheap to build up into massive power carnivores. Just tweaking the 4 barrel Quadrajet can obtain a meaningful performance upgrade. You can really feel that power in the big Pontiac just waiting to be unleashed. In addition, the parts are readily plentiful and quite inexpensive.

The Pontiac's transmission is a Turbo-hydromatic 400, which apparently was one of the best GM ever built. It is a smoooooooth shifting car. You have to really concentrate to feel the kickdown points. It's a great trans (3 speed auto) for the engine and the car.

The car is actually very comfortable to drive, also. It's kind of like driving from a couch.

But...

When it comes to REAL comfort, handling ability, and driving satisfaction, the Pontiac doesn't even touch the 450SEL. The ergo dynamics of the 450SEL can only truly be appreciated after driving other cars, I daresay. The driver seat/steering wheel relationship is truly incredible in a Mercedes. As is the ability to maintain contact with the road. I don't think one can adequately appreciate how good Mercedes is in this department until one has compared it to something else.

And the handling? Omigosh. That Pontiac (which is 19' long, BTW) is a BOAT, and drives like one. When you drive a big body American luxury car, you are in the highway navy. The 450SEL is a big car also, quite obviously, but it sure doesn't drive like one. It is such an agile car, and it hugs the road like it's in love with it. You DON'T want to take that Pontiac out on an aggressive-cornering drive.

After driving the Pontiac, I feel a renewed sense of appreciation for the old American luxury torque beasts. I really like cruising in that torque monster. But I can also very much - more now than before I bought the Pontiac - appreciate why rich people were willing to shuck out five times as much money to buy themselves a Mercedes S-class.

What follows below is from a Motor Trend review of a 73 Pontiac Grand Am w/ a 455. It makes a comparison between the Pontiac and European cars, which makes the article doubly appropriate. If you read my take above, and then read the article, you'll see where I agree and disagree w/ the article:

The Motor Trend Road Test

In the May 1973 issue, Motor Trend tested the "Paper NASCAR Street Machines." It was one of a few magazines to give the Grand Am positive press overall. Note that the car was compared to its American contemporaries and not overseas models. Some other magazines took the Grand Am to task for its overall size and fuel economy as compared to the sedans of Mercedes and BMW. But in the U.S., the GA was more likely to compete against other American-made models of similar girth and heft such as the ones in this test, which included a 1973 455 automatic Grand Am, a 454 automatic Chevelle Laguna, a 440 automatic Charger, and 351 automatic Torino. The Jim Brokaw-authored piece was a road test with a twist. Of course all of the usual information was provided but the street pretenders to the NASCAR throne were also tested on a race track to see how their high-speed prowess compared. The Grand Am and Laguna were described as "large 'small' cars, nimble quick and responsive," by Motor Trend.

"With regard to the Grand Am specifically, Brokaw said, "Handling is smooth and stable under most conditions, better than a lot of so-called good handling foreign sedans. But while steering is precise, at higher speeds the machine feels a little nervous." Also the otherwise excellent suspension was marked down for overreacting to larger bumps with "quite a bit of rebound in some of the larger swales."

The instrument panel got high marks of course, as did the seats for support save a too short lower cushion. While the lumbar support was deemed brilliant in concept, the consensus was that its positioning wasn't where it should have been for optimal effectiveness.

"To say the 455 engine is strong would be the understatement of the year. It propels the car along like a rocket," Brokaw stated. Great praise for a standard 250-horse D-port engine. "Brake response was very good, though fade and smoke were evident after four or five repeated stops." "The Pontiac Grand Am had the best balance, the best combination of ride and handling, and was the most comfortable to drive, lumbar lump not withstanding," Motor Trend said of the GA's road manners. Track testing revealed a different side of the Pontiac's suspension however. "Both the Grand Am and the Laguna became light on their feet above 90 mph. The comfortable compliancy of the suspension is too compliant for control at 100 mph."

When all was said and done Brokaw proclaimed, "On balance, the Pontiac is the best automobile of the four, the Charger is a close second and the Laguna and Torino are tied for third."

It would certainly appear that Motor Trend thought highly of Pontiac's new European-inspired intermediate. Good thing for Pontiac given the fact that the price as tested was $6,153, which was cheaper than a Mercedes or Bimmer but $900-1,000 more than each of the other American competitors."

In any event, I thought it might be interesting to hear from some of you in terms of comparing your old Benz with whatever other car you've got.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

It's interesting to see how the dollar devaluations of the '70s priced many German goods out of the US market.
My reference lists the March '73 price for a fully equipped 450SEL at $14,605, or something more than double the as-tested price of $6153 for that '73 Grand Am. But by late '75 the 450SEL cost over $21,000, and even the German Opel, once sold as an economy car, was pushing $5000!

More dramatic was the price increase on a more basic Mercedes. The 220D, which started out in early '68 with an East-coast base-price of $4494, was pushing $7000 by late '73, and the equivalent 240D was over $10,000 by late 75!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[JimFreeh]

Interesting that you should mention the 73 Pontiac Grand Am.

In the early seventies, my parent's had a 69 6.3 Benz and a new Grand Am two door coupe concurrently.

Compared to most other american cars, the Grand Am was a revalation. It had a relatively stiff suspension, fat radial tires on 15" wheels, anti sway bars, and a great rumble from the dual exhausts.

Certainly not the same level as the 6.3, which Mom still thinks of as her high water mark car, but both Mom and Dad enjoyed the Grand Am.

Quality and material were in two different worlds, as one should expect, given the price differences.

The Grand Am had a couple of neat features that I've never seen in a MB, namely seats that swiveled outboard, and inserts in the front seats that could be either cloth or vinyl, depending on how you flipped them.

Maintenance-wise, the Grand Am was a workhorse, the 6.3 was a thoroughbred, but by the time the Grand Am was 7 years old, it was a beat puppy. Paint had dulled, weatherstripping was shot, lots of creaks, clanks, and groans from the car. Doors clunked shut, and although huge, did not impart a feeling of confidence.... The Pontiac was eventually given to a friend of my Moms, and her sun ran it into a gas station pump.... But up until the day they gave it away, it still ran like a train, and still do a *****in' burnout. Still had the original exhaust on it, and it still had a great sound.

The 6.3 is still around, having gone through a period of ownership where my we and my siblings dumped ungodly amounts of money into it, before regaining sanity and sending off to family friend, who is a huge MB nut. Joe still has the car in Ohio today.

I can give a direct comparision between two 1971s I currently have in the fleet: First, a 250C coupe with a M130 six fitted with Weber carbs and coupled to a auto trans, floor shift. The black on black car had been restored in 1990, then driven as a daily car for 5 years. I bought it after it had sat for a few years, and resurrected it mechanically. Car now looks pretty nice from 10 feet, and is still very nice inside, doesn't leak water since it had all new seals in 1990, and has a NOS true dual exhaust setup with twin chrome tips. Second is a three owner Elduhrado convertible with less than 100k miles on it, and basically original. Boss Hogg edition, white with a red interior. This car really needs a steer horn hood ornament and a dixie horn......

The first thing that jumps out at me is the diffence in absolutely every control and action on the car. The 250C still has that same snich to the door when closing that it had new, the headlight swtch feels like it's turning on a power grid, Mb Tex still looks great and the ride and handling as just what you expect when driving a Benz. The Caddy on the other hand, shows much deterioration in almost every aspect. Window and top seals, gone. Plastic parts on the interior, going or gone bad. Dash, amazingly not cracked . Switchgear does not insprie confidence when operated, in either function or perceived longevity. Even with new heavy duty shocks, the car wallows along the road, and the front end is still tight! One thing the ElDuh will do, is smoke the front tires when launched, if you can stand to see the gas gage vsibly drop....

It's absolutely amazing to me to see the difference in the way the MB has aged compared to the Caddy. Both cars not abused examples, and I'll concede that the 250C has had a bit more work done to it, but that was 17 years ago! The 250C is still a great daily driver, and my daughter uses it as such every day. The Caddy is a great Saturday afternoon cruise around for an hour car, but not nearly as satisfying as the Benz.

Ironically, the Caddy is worth 5-7 times the Benz, I guess bad taste never goes out of style.

Jim

[wcelliot]

Back in the early 60's a UK car magazine did a comparison of a Buick Riviera GS and a Bentley S2 or S3. The Buick won every category.

I've owned Riverias and Tornados (other than the Corvair and Corvette, the best handling American car of the 6's) and found them to be worthy alternatives in many ways.

I was shopping for a Rolls or Bentley FHC (either a Shadow or an early Cornich) when a buddy forced me to drive a W111 first. Absolutely no comparison; the Mercedes wins hands down...

Bill

[Wodnek]

You cant really compare a 116 to anything. I have driven alot of cars, of all makes and sizes and never found anything to compare to a 116 on handling and ride. Truely an awesome chassis. Too bad about the rust though. I guess you cant have everything.

It truely outclasses anything with four doors though, maybe even to this day.

[PaulC]

I thought that you might like to see a video road test of the '73 GrandVille:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg4QtYizPKM

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by Wodnek

You cant really compare a 116 to anything. I have driven alot of cars, of all makes and sizes and never found anything to compare to a 116 on handling and ride. Truely an awesome chassis. Too bad about the rust though. I guess you cant have everything.

It truely outclasses anything with four doors though, maybe even to this day.

You know, I feel the same way about the W114. When I drove the 71 250CE back in England, I also owned an 85 Opel Manta (B) GT/E and then a 90 BMW 318I. Apart from the gas mileage. The 250CE was probably more nible then the Manta and a lot faster then the BMW. It also had better brakes then both cars and was very stable on the highway. I really liked that car.

[michaeld]

Originally Posted by PaulC

I thought that you might like to see a video road test of the '73 GrandVille:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg4QtYizPKM

I'm wondering, Paul: was that the Car and Driver or the Road & Track road test?

I think we would all agree that a road test ought to be on an actual ROAD, and not on some closed track, right? Could we vote to let cops and bad guys road test all the new cars from now on?

I've also got to second Wodnek: the w116 got labeled "a 70's car" and kind of discarded by car collectors. But it is truly a great automobile.

I'm hoping other members will post their own experiences comparing "other" cars to our vintage Mercedes. Again, I think you can't truly appreciate an automobile until you consider it in relation to other/different cars.

I think that one interesting point to consider is the very different philosophies of American luxury car builders and Mercedes. American cars are ponderous-bodied torque monsters; Mercedes are saloon cars that appear to be based on the concept of "road-hugging performance."

It wasn't that American carmakers couldn't build high performance cars (consider the Corvette, the Firebird, the Trans Am, etc). But when they built luxury cars, the American big three went off in an entire different direction. Were they emulating Rolls Royce, as opposed to Mercedes-Benz?

[JimFreeh]

On the subject of quality, I feel that at this point in time, all new cars will exhibit a fair degree of quality when new and for the first few years out.

That's all a manufacturer really needs to consider, since the vast majority of new car owners will have traded in for another new car by then.

Where Mercedes has traditionally distiguished itself, is in the second half of a car's lifespan. Look at the cross section of cars we discuss here, we think nothing about driving 25 year old diesels as daily transportation! Look around next time you are out driving that Benz, and see how many 15+ year old cars you find in traffic. I'm not talking about the antique or collector car, but run of the mill sedans....

It's getting unusual in my area to see any Japanese cars that date to the early nineties on the street. Even first gen Ford Taurii are getting thinned out. I will make an exception for full sized American pickup trucks, though.

Even though I have trouble thinking of my 83 300D becoming an official antique next year (it still looks and drives as new!), I am even more amazed that my 86 300E 5 speed daily commuter is now over 20 years years old! Gads, I remember when the W124 first came out and I wanted one sooooo baaaad!

As a counterpoint to my earlier post about the ElDuhrado, I have one car in the garage that I think does give the Benz a run for it's money wrt quality and longevity.

Subject car is a 1964 Lincoln Continental convertible. I bought the car from the original owner's estate in 1974 with 27K miles on it. I've owned the car for over 33 years, and it still wears it's original paint, top and leather interior.

When Lincoln introduced the suicide door sedan and convertible for 1961, it was a defining car for the sixties. Lincoln knew that they needed to offer an outstanding car if they were ever to challenge Cadillac in the luxury market (or even survive, for that matter). They pulled out all the stops when they designed this car. Not only was the styling universally admired (even made the Road & Track top ten auomotive designs), but it threw Bill Mitchell and the GM style back into yesterday. Sort of like the 57 Chrysler line forced Harley Earl to rethink GM design philosophy.

More significant, long term, was the push to produce a car that met a standard (Like MB) vice to a cost. The 61 Lincoln was introduced with the (at the time unheard of) warranty period of 1 year and 12,000 miles. Then current industry practice was a few months of warranty.

Lincoln tested every engine and transmission on a stand, then partially disassembled them and checked them again. All electric harnesses were checked before installation, and the completed car was road tested for 12 miles before getting signed off for delivery. The cars were considered fully broken in when delivered. Material quality on the cars was top shelf all the way. There was very little interchangable the more common Ford models, and with the exception of the clock, all my power stuff functions and is original to the car. The Lincoln also used pneumatic door locks, just as our MBs use, also. Another neat feature was a windshield wiper that was hydraulic. The power steering pump was used to supply hydraulic pressure to the wiper motor. The power steering pump was also located behind the crank damper, so that a broken belt could not result in a loss of power for the system.

These truly were amazing cars, and were the design that saved Lincoln. Lincoln later gained parity with Caddilac with the Mark III, but that's a another story.

Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Chrysler Imperials of the sixties were significantly different than period MBs. Large, low rpm V-8s were the norm. Road hugging weight, and vast interior space were design goals and sales tools. The Lincoln will never keep up with any MB on a tight, twisty road, but aim that Lincoln out to the interstate, and set the cruise, and it was in it's element. Remember, in the sixties, MB did not even offer FACTORY A/C, it was all cobbled up at the port of entry. Cruise control? Vas ist das?

I remember MB cars from my youth. Dad had a pontoon 220S that I thought was really cool because it had the overnight parking lights. My uncles, (all first-gen German-Americans) had MB pontoons, usually 180 or 190s. By the fintail era, they had switched to 190D and 200Ds. When the first W115 220Ds came out I was really impressed (What! no kingpins, swing axles, or 72 grease fitting on the chassis?!?!), and consequently have owned W114/W115 for many years and still have one.

But, MB was still a fringe car to the American public in the sixties. Even the 6.3, when Dad bought it for Mom in 1972 was not mainstream. although the 6.3 did a lot to change MB's image in the minds of the American public.

MB went mainstream when it introduced the W116 chassis car, and in particular the V-8 models. It all came together in the early seventies, Mercedes was long known for building high quality, if quirky cars, the diesels gave the MB name a reputation for frugality (Which the gassres were not!), the rising inflation rate and consequently higher purchase prce every year gave the impression of value. I still remember one onwer talking about how he had bought a 220D, drove it for several years, and sold it for what he paid for it. He apparantly dismissed the fact that his new MB 240D cost significantly more than his 220D!

Then we have the introduction of the W116, with it's larger size, advanced suspension, and powerful V-8. Couple that with the W114/W115 series and the R107 SLs, and MB had the right reputation, the right cars, at the right time.

Suddenly, during the first Arab oil embargo, everyones car priorities changed. Economy (real and percieved in MBs case) became paramount. The japanese have introduced initial quality to the masses and consumers were beginning to demand it. Detriot was at their nadir wrt quality at the same time.

The right time, the right prduct, the right image. Mercedes time had come!

Jim

[Mark DiSilvestro]

20 years ago, I got to test-drive one of those big, early '60s, suicide-door Lincolns. It was a very well maintained white 1963 sedan with a red leather interior. I was impressed with how tight that car felt and handled. And it had a relatively firm ride, unlike the mushy feel of most large American cars from the '60s. Don't know if that was typical of those cars. I once read a reveiw that said those big Lincolns were surprisingly agile for a big American luxury car. Or perhaps the suspension had been upgraded. Later on, I test-drove a 68 Lincoln, one of the last suicide-door models, and it was a dissapointment, with sloppy steering and that overly-soft American big-car wallow. Other than the '63 Lincoln, the only other '60s American sedan that really impressed me with it's solid ride and handling was a well-preserved '64 Dodge Dart that I got to test-drive back then.

As for '60s Mercedes, five years ago, I acquired a '60 Fintail 220S from the original owner.
Though the body had suffered from many years spent outdoors, the PO had driven the car regularly and kept it in decent mechanical condition. Once I replaced the motor mounts, and got used to the drum-brakes, manual-steering and column-shift, I was amazed at the level of refinement I felt while driving that car. Despite the lack of amenities we take for granted in cars today, that old Fintail six was so smooth, and the ride and handling felt tight, more like a modern car than one over 40 years old, though I'm sure the Pirelli radials that were on the car helped the handling too.

Though I never was into big luxury cars, the differences in feel and quality between most US and foreign cars were, perhaps, more apparent in the smaller vehicles that I owned or drove, especially during the '70s.
American car manufacturers used to brag about how their products were tailored for American buyers, while writers in magazines, like Road & Track, would comment on how superior European cars were, compared to their dumbed-down American cousins. And who can forget that '70s icon of shoddy American car quality - the Chevy Vega!

In the late '70s, I owned a '68 German Opel Kadett. Despite it's tiny 1.1 liter engine, I remember that car as being much more fun to drive and better handling than it's American clone - the Chevy Chevette. By the early '80s, I had aquired a '68 Ford Cortina GT as a fixer-upper. Again, even with it's solid rear axle and pushrod engine, the Cortina was superior in performance and handling when compared with the, then recently introduced, supposedly state-of-the-art, FWD Ford Escort.

I believe most of today's American cars have been vastly improved, but it's still going to take awhile for many US car-buyers to forget mistakes like the Chevy Citation, Ford Tempo, Plymounth Volare and Oldsmobile diesel.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[JimFreeh]

[quote=Mark DiSilvestro;1513987]20 years ago, I got to test-drive one of those big, early '60s, suicide-door Lincolns. It was a very well maintained white 1963 sedan with a red leather interior. I was impressed with how tight that car felt and handled. And it had a relatively firm ride, unlike the mushy feel of most large American cars from the '60s. Don't know if that was typical of those cars. I once read a reveiw that said those big Lincolns were surprisingly agile for a big American luxury car. Or perhaps the suspension had been upgraded. Later on, I test-drove a 68 Lincoln, one of the last suicide-door models, and it was a dissapointment, with sloppy steering and that overly-soft American big-car wallow.

+++Seems most American cars that started out good, got flabbier as the design aged. the Toronado is another example. Dad had a 67, and it handled well, his 68 was very sloppy compared to the 66 and 67s we had ridden it. He was really disappointed in the 68, and replaced it with the above mentioned Grand Am rather quickly.

As for '60s Mercedes, five years ago, I acquired a '60 Fintail 220S from the original owner.
I was amazed at the level of refinement I felt while driving that car. Despite the lack of amenities we take for granted in cars today, that old Fintail six was so smooth, and the ride and handling felt tight, more like a modern car than one over 40 years old, though I'm sure the Pirelli radials that were on the car helped the handling too.

+++Same thing. Comparing a vintage MB against any thing else from the period is a revelation. Years ago, I drove my Uncle's low mileage 62 Silver Cloud II, and was amazed at how much nicer a 50's vintage 300d drove. The Rolls was a car to be driven in, as opposed to a car that you wanted to drive.


In the late '70s, I owned a '68 German Opel Kadett. Despite it's tiny 1.1 liter engine, I remember that car as being much more fun to drive and better handling than it's American clone - the Chevy Chevette. By the early '80s, I had aquired a '68 Ford Cortina GT as a fixer-upper. Again, even with it's solid rear axle and pushrod engine, the Cortina was superior in performance and handling when compared with the, then recently introduced, supposedly state-of-the-art, FWD Ford Escort.


++++Sixty eight Cortina! Wow! I had two of those in the early seventies. Maroon coupes, I had a 69 wood dash on mine, along with Capri buckets and ro-style wheels, Stebro exhaust and that car really cooked. Looked like a Jaguar with that wood dash and all the Smiths gages lined up across it. Had to go to the Lincoln-Mercury dealer and ask for early Capri parts, the Ford parts counter didn't remember what a Cortina was! Upgraded to a 72 Opel GT in 1974, and it was nothing more than a 1.9L Kadette in a mini 'Vette body. Fun car, too.

[wbrian63]

If you want a real "thrill" - flip the air cleaner lid over and take that '73 GV out for a spin. Nothing - NOTHING - talks like a quadrajet on a 400/455 Pontiac motor.

There's something about the design of the intake manifold that makes the carbs really loud. I've driven q-jet equipped chevys (small & big block) and a really nasty 455 in a Buick GS, a q-jet powered 500CID 1975 Caddy Coupe deVille, and none of those carbs (identical one and all) were as loud as the q-jet on my stepmother's 455-powered '73 GV.

[michaeld]

Originally Posted by wbrian63

Nothing - NOTHING - talks like a quadrajet on a 400/455 Pontiac motor.

There's something about the design of the intake manifold that makes the carbs really loud. I've driven q-jet equipped chevys (small & big block) and a really nasty 455 in a Buick GS, a q-jet powered 500CID 1975 Caddy Coupe deVille, and none of those carbs (identical one and all) were as loud as the q-jet on my stepmother's 455-powered '73 GV.

I just wish I'd been able to talk to you right after I bought the GV! This was my first Pontiac, and my first Quadrajet. When I first started it up, I was greeted by such a throaty growl that I started to wonder if I had an exhaust leak. I went up and down the manifold with a stethoscope looking for a problem that wasn't there! It was just that Quadrajet breathing! It sounds GREAT now that I know everything's hunky dory.

It's fascinating, the difference in philosophy. You don't see a lot of Mercedes at the drag strip. And of course they'd basically get their butts kicked there, so it's a good thing. At the same time, you don't see many American 4-door sedans that look like they can hit a windy road at full throttle without ending up wheels-up in the ditch.

I've driven on plenty of windy roads in this country, so it's not like we don't have them. But somehow US automakers totally lacked anything resembling a "saloon car" until long after the European cars (especially Mercedes and BMW, but also Jaguar) began to thrive. If you bought an American luxury car, you had your choice of whichever manufacturers' boat tickled your fancy. "Any size you want, as long as it's big!" And wide, and ponderous.

I have a slightly different take on American quality (at least until 1974 or so), as it seems to me that if an American car is garaged and well-maintained, you've got a car that is suprisingly durable. Take my Pontiac: all the power windows work great; the cruise works; the A/C works; the power door locks all work; same with the power seats, stereo, and so on. The interior is real nice. As is the factory paint. This is a car that was loved, and it shows it. By and large, you really can't look at my Pontiac and criticize its build quality. My Mercedes has a bad window, a bad doorlock, and so on.

But then there are those little subtle things: the wood trim that's genuine wood; the way the doors shut, and the sturdy pillars; the suspension and brake systems that are literally years ahead of anything the Americans were putting on their luxury cars. And when you sit behind the wheel and drive, MAN my 450SEL is comfortable!

This aspect of Mercedes-Benz reminds me of a story:


On a golf tour in Newfoundland before he signed with Buick, Tiger Woods drove his Mercedes-Benz into a gas station.

The attendant at the pump greeted him in a typical Newfoundland manner, completely unaware of who the golfing pro was.

"Mornin' bye" said the attendant.

Tiger nodded a quick "hello" and leaned over to pick up the nozzle.

As he did so, two tees fell out out of his shirt pocket onto the ground.

"What are dey den, son?" asked the attendant.

"They're called tees" replied Tiger.

"Well, what on de good earth are dey for?" inquired the Newfie.

"They're for resting my balls on when I'm driving" said Tiger.

"Freeckin awesome" said the Newfie, "Dem boys at Mercedes tink of everyting!"

And when it comes to driver ergodynamics and automotive road handling ability, dem boys at Mercedes really do tink of everyting.

[GaryF]

I can understand how the cars of the '60s and '70s differed between Europe and the US given the differences in the markets and the fuel prices but now that global cars are being sold, such as the Ford Focus already mentioned, and japanese models with similar specs around the world maybe we're all converging.
Although having said that, I had a Ford 500 hire car last week while on vacation in PA and I couldnt imagine it selling well in Europe (which is probably why it isnt)

[Mark DiSilvestro]

From the first wave of car imports in the '50s, through the 1980s, American auto manufacturers had repeated the mantra of "American cars designed for Americans", though, at least through the '60s, most American cars were durable and reliable.
The Chevy Vega possibly represents the low-point in American auto quality. The car was overweight, and the unit-body suffered from premature rust. While it's aluminum OHC engine probably made good AD copy, it was heavier, noisier, less efficient, and much less durable than the iron-block engines GM was already using in their European Opel and Vauxhaul.
At least Ford got the engines right in the Pinto, by using the British 1600 and German OHC 2 liter, though their performance was still somewhat strangled by the US-required emission controls.
Today, the newest Saturn is supposed to be based on an Opel design, Saab and GM are sharing floorpans, while cars like the Ford Focus are much closer to their European twins. Sadly, while many American cars are now much closer in performance to their foreign counterparts, many European cars, including Mercedes, are racking up the worst marks for reliability.

Happy Motoring, Mark