Ben,

I'm glad your method is working for you.

The difference here is that the MB is not designed and maintained with a low mileage goal of 150,000 miles in mind. These cars are designed, and if high mileage is desired by the owner maintained, for a half million miles or more.

Up until recently I drove 50,000 to 70,000 miles per year. Before I learned the importance of fluid flushing I rebuilt and replaced LOTS of brake and clutch hydraulics. Now that I do it annually, which I started probably about 15 years ago, I have just not had to rebuild or replace ANY brake or clutch hydraulic components that were kept on this regimen from the beginning.

For some preventive maintenance items it is possible to build a very good case against doing them on the grounds that it is so expensive that it would be just about as economical to let the components wear out. Not so with this one when the human safety element is factored in. I can flush my hydraulics for about $3.50 worth of fluid. Very cheap insurance.

This does not stop with my MB's. I also do it on my daughters Honda, my wifes Mini Cooper, my Corvette and my F150 4X4. It works.

Have a great day,

Ben, your posting flies against everything written in lkchris' link:
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf50412.htm
Plus my experience is considerably different. If you drive at least 20K each year and hang on to your cars for no more than 10 years, you'll never see problems related to brake fluid maintenance because the brakes are changed often. I myself have seen many problems directly related to brake fluid neglect.

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95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K

Most people do not drive their Mercedes 500K, far from it. If I had one that was over 150K, I would probably look at the brake fluid and replace it if it appeared to need it .... obviously that may be difficult to ascertain at that point. My experience is just as previously stated; never replaced brake fluid and never had any brake problems at all; just pad replacement. I have had some brake lines/hoses replaced, but rarely.

If you enjoy heavy maintenance activity and feel that "enth degree" of replacement is worthwhile -- go to it. I take very good care of my cars but don't believe some of the MB recc maintenance "rules" or extreme maintenance steps like replacing the brake fluid every 2 years are really necessary .... in my experience.

Adjusting the valves on my 68 230S ?? Yes, that is necessary with that engine and I do that. Areas that are questionable in terms of real necessity or value, I look at but don't follow religiously as a rule. I evaluate each case and each car on its own basis.

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Ben Harrison Carter
1999 Mercedes ML320 87K
1992 Mercedes 300CE 89K
1995 Corvette 29K -- Sold Dec 09
1989 Mercedes 420SEL 99K -- (Sold 4/08)
1968 Mercedes 230S (106K) (Sold 9/06))
1976 Mercedes 450SEL 130K (Just sold - 06)
1961 Mercedes 220Sb (sold years ago)

Ben,

If you think that there aren't very many people who run their MB's to high mileage, I think that you need to browse around on the Diesel Discussion Forum and look at the members signatures. The AVERAGE there is probably 250 to 300 thousand. Fortunately for you, you are just not a high mileage driver.

My 300E is at 288,000 miles now and it does not feel like, nor do I consider it a high mileage car. I have to admit though, that my 240D at a half million miles did get to a point of being a high mileage car in spite of the fact that it had ALL the original brake hydraulics still on the car and had not been rebuilt.

As far as brake flushing being heavy maintenance. I can flush the brake systems using my cheapo Motive Pressure Bleeder in about 20 minutes and spend about $3.50 on brake fluid. That doesn't sound too "heavy" to me.

Replacing a master cylinder for $100 or so I DO consider "heavy."

It's like the old Fram Filter commercials, "you can pay me now or pay me later."

Kestas,

Thanks for the great link.

Have a great day,

Guys who are racing flush the brakes after every event. You do not want any brake fluid that has gotten hot left in the system.

I have been eyeing a set of Goodridge stainless lines for my W126, do they really make a difference in brake feel??

MB states right in the handy dandy manual they include with every car to flush the brake fluid once a year, springtime is prefered. So thats what I do.

I know several people who neglect their cars but they don't keep them long enough for them to feel the affects. For example my dads friend runs about 50k miles a year on his F150 and buys a new one every 3-4 years. He changes the oil thats it no other maintaince is performed. He doesn't have a problem but I bet the next owner gets a few. So he could draw the conclusion that spark plugs never need to be replaced, ect.

My dad has never flushed the brake fluid in any of his cars as well. Until he did the brakes on his truck and decided to. Not only was he amazed by the improved pedal feel he now does it on my moms car as well.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I don't feel I neglect my cars; quite the contrary ... but I also do not perform maintenance until I feel it is really necessary. If you follow all the guidelines MB produces for its maintenance items, you will spend half your time and a third of your money "over maintaining" them I believe. We all should do what we feel is necessary and best for the cars, without maintaining them to death. BC

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Ben Harrison Carter
1999 Mercedes ML320 87K
1992 Mercedes 300CE 89K
1995 Corvette 29K -- Sold Dec 09
1989 Mercedes 420SEL 99K -- (Sold 4/08)
1968 Mercedes 230S (106K) (Sold 9/06))
1976 Mercedes 450SEL 130K (Just sold - 06)
1961 Mercedes 220Sb (sold years ago)

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Actually , that is what you do ...you perform maint. when it is necessay..like , when something breaks.
What you do not do is "Preventive Maint. "..
Big difference and I prefer to buy a previously owned car from the later type thinker...

The difference is small, but perceptible. Definitely not a huge difference like on a motorcycle, where rubber lines are a joke, and many high-zoot sportbikes not come from the factory with stainless braided lines (like my Aprilia). Of course on a bike, you're sensing brake action via fingertips, so it's a little more direct than on a car through your foot and shoes. On a street car that doesn't get enthusiastic brake useage, I'd just put new rubber lines on.

For Mercedes lines, I'd call StopTech. I was told their lines have a vinyl protective sheath, which is highly desireable - it keeps dirt out of the braid, which can cause premature wear & failure. I've got the stainless lines on both my 300D and E500. Pad compound makes a big difference in feel as well... I really like how the Porterfield R4-S pads feel.

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Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

It depends if you don't mind the car breaking down when you're on a trip out of state, or on the way to a job interview, or some other very inconvenient time. Preventive maintenance can't eliminate all those situations, but it does eliminate a large percentage (IMO). Driving until something breaks isn't my idea of fun. Preventive mainentance can also save a lot of money, for instance the brake fluid replacements... you *did* read the link posted above, didn't you? Or at least looked at the pictures? Here is is again:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf50412.htm

A lot of this discussion is relative to the person and cars involved ... What always happens in a thread like this is that some people who want to be considered the "experts" simply insist that what they are saying is absolutely and irrevocably correct. I do perform preventive maintenance on all my cars; there are just some areas where I don't believe in overdoing it. One of those is the brake system fluid change every little whipstitch ..... end of story.
Ben Carter

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Ben Harrison Carter
1999 Mercedes ML320 87K
1992 Mercedes 300CE 89K
1995 Corvette 29K -- Sold Dec 09
1989 Mercedes 420SEL 99K -- (Sold 4/08)
1968 Mercedes 230S (106K) (Sold 9/06))
1976 Mercedes 450SEL 130K (Just sold - 06)
1961 Mercedes 220Sb (sold years ago)

As I said earlier, I'm glad that your method is working for you. Each of us maintain our cars as we see fit as it is our right to do so.

Best of luck,

A thirty minute procedure, once every two years, is too much of a "little whipstitch" for you? Wow. And it's not us "experts", it's Mercedes engineers who decided it was required/recommended to repace the fluid. So have you looked at that link yet? By simple definition, since the fluid is hygroscopic, it has to be replaced periodically. Besides, brakes are one area I don't like to pinch pennies. It's not like anyone is saying it's a good idea to proactively replace calipers or master cylinders when they haven't yet failed!

"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Sign me up on the 2 year brake flush schedule - been doing it this way for years; just cheap insurance & zero brake issues ever -
OLF at 3500 miles
Tire rotation at 5k mile intervals
Radiator flush & fill at 2 year intervals (done on brake flush schedule)

Cars are an investment; if the car is paid off, think of the fluid exchanges as a monthly/annual payment towards maintaining the overall value of your investment. I know of people that are more interested in washing & waxing their car rather than maintaining it; great, so at least it looks shiny sitting broken in the driveway - really impresses the neighbors...

It's still a free country, so you are more than welcome to do the minimums on vehicle maintenance as you see fit - but remember too, that minimum input yields you minimum return in the longrun... The people posting on this board seem to offer sage wisdom when it comes to maintaining their cars; it doesn't make them experts, but it does show that they are seeking to maximize the lifespan of their vehicle.

Ben, I cannot help but be curious regarding your comment -
"I also do not perform maintenance until I feel it is really necessary" -
What is the standard or rule that you use to qualify when maintenance is required?

bnc

Not to incite further flaming, but in my opinion ANY time a car has to be worked on, it is for one of two reasons:

1) Preventive Maintenance
2) Repair

That's it. As far as I'm concerned, there is no other reason to touch a car other than the above. With that said, option #1 is way more enjoyable and way less expensive than option #2 so I do plenty of it. I believe flushing the brake fluid falls under #1.

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08 W251 R350
97 W210 E320
91 W124 300E
86 W126 560SEL
85 W126 380SE Silver
85 W126 380SE Cranberry
79 W123 250
78 W123 280E
75 W114 280

The last two posts were some of the best that I've ever seen on this forum.

Have a great day,