not sure if my 190 e 2.3 brakes work as well as they should. they take a lot more pedal pressure to stop than my 300e.
both cars 88 models.are the 300e brakes that much better.
the 190e has a good pedal but does not inspire the confidece that the 300e gives when stopping.
don't want to try and fix the brakes if they are normally not as strong as the 124. the 124 requires much less pedal pressue
i have done many brake jobs and can chase down a frozen caliper or bleed the brakes if needed.
there is a big differance between the two cars.
i know this is a loaded question with many possabilitys. just wondering if some one has driven these two cars.
thank you rich

__________________
88 300E White, sold 9-04
88 190E Black 2.3 sold
90 300CE White, Grey sold 12-24-04
92 400E White,Grey Sold 5-06
90 300CE 91K Signal Red,Black Sold 2007
1989 300CE Smoke silver,Tan Sold 1-08
1993 300E 3.2 M104 motor
1991 300CE White,Grey
1994 E420 beautiful car,gone to new home
1994 E320 Smoke an Parchment.Beautiful car

All of the W201 cars have smaller brake discs(front) & less pad area than the 300E EXCEPT the 16V, & it has the exact brakes as the 300E (W124).

OF course the W201 chassis is much lighter & under most conditions(standard tires) will out-brake the 300E.

__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

thanks mb doc, well it looks like i need to check a little furthur.
like a check for frozen caliper and check for air in lines.
with a 150,ooo miles the brake hoses should be good.
car does not pull. think i'll check for air in master,then bleed the calipers.
this did make me wonder as the car is a mercedes and i ASSUMED that the brakes would feel great.
the way it feels my money is on the front brakes.
thank you very much
rich

__________________
88 300E White, sold 9-04
88 190E Black 2.3 sold
90 300CE White, Grey sold 12-24-04
92 400E White,Grey Sold 5-06
90 300CE 91K Signal Red,Black Sold 2007
1989 300CE Smoke silver,Tan Sold 1-08
1993 300E 3.2 M104 motor
1991 300CE White,Grey
1994 E420 beautiful car,gone to new home
1994 E320 Smoke an Parchment.Beautiful car

olpos

We have a 190 and 300 and they both brake equally well. You might want to check the type of pad you are using on the fronts.
Brake pads vary quite a bit. Do you know what kind of front pads you are using?

Be more descriptive ... does the 190 not slow down the car as well from high speeds or low?

It is possible your front disks are glazed. Does their surface look OK?

Haasman

__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

Pedal effort and feel are highly affected by the type of friction material. What make/model of pads are installed in each car?

Duke

thanks for the response, the brake pad's may be the problem.
i am in the process of replacing the rear brake rotors,their is a warped rotor back there.that is not helping. as far as the pads i am not sure in front. with the 124 a small amount of pedal pressure slows well on the freeway . the 190 takes a lot of pressure to stop. i think the previous owner did only pad slaps. think i'll get the front rotors turned with new pads.
i am only looking to make the brakes feel better,normal, as this car is not a keeper. the pedal height is good,just seems to need too much pedal pressure. it does stop in a resonable distance.
thank you
rich

__________________
88 300E White, sold 9-04
88 190E Black 2.3 sold
90 300CE White, Grey sold 12-24-04
92 400E White,Grey Sold 5-06
90 300CE 91K Signal Red,Black Sold 2007
1989 300CE Smoke silver,Tan Sold 1-08
1993 300E 3.2 M104 motor
1991 300CE White,Grey
1994 E420 beautiful car,gone to new home
1994 E320 Smoke an Parchment.Beautiful car

Rich

Your last comment about pedal pressure also makes me wonder about the brake booster. I am wondering if you have a vacuum leak? In otherwords, it does supply a boost, but because of a leaking not quite a full level assist that would make the brakes feel "effective" like the 300e.

Haasman

__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

I bought my car with some other type break pads, and although they worked, I changed them to OEM and the difference was amazing. It felt like hands were grabbing the road, might have also been a result of new better tires, but they were there with the old pads as well. Pedal travel for me is a bit long, but since I feel the car braking as soon as I touch it, I'm not tempted to go looking for any problems. Just flushed the system a few months back too.

xp

__________________
1985 190E 2.3L - a constant project.

haasman, yes it does feel low on boost pressure. i will take a peek at the vacuum supply to verify the booster is getting its full vacuum. having done lots of brakes,i realize boosters almost never are the problem. but still needs vacuum
thank you
rich

will also check the other items .
but now ,can some one tell me if i can just put 300e front brakes on the 190 2.3. if i read the search right,i'll just need two front rotors with the calipers from an early 300e. i take it the brake lines will go right on. do i need the dust shields.
may as well improve the brakes while i am in there.
being in so. california used calipers should be easy to find.

got to check that booster first

thank you
rich

__________________
88 300E White, sold 9-04
88 190E Black 2.3 sold
90 300CE White, Grey sold 12-24-04
92 400E White,Grey Sold 5-06
90 300CE 91K Signal Red,Black Sold 2007
1989 300CE Smoke silver,Tan Sold 1-08
1993 300E 3.2 M104 motor
1991 300CE White,Grey
1994 E420 beautiful car,gone to new home
1994 E320 Smoke an Parchment.Beautiful car

The 190E has more than enough brake capacity. Unless you're a qualified hydraulic system engineer, leave the system alone except for making necessary repairs and selecting brake pads.

Duke

If the booster is OK, check the REAR calipers for sticking pistons. If someone ran the rotors too thin, the pads hit the anti-rattle spring and the pistons are stuck -- in my experience it's usually the outside one because they tend to wear a bit faster. Aftermarket pads can cause trouble here -- the backing plate is sometimes thicker than factory, so they hit sooner.

If you have trouble pushing the pistons back, rebuild the caliper (new piston seal and dust boot). This is very easy, and unless the piston or bore is really corroded, will fix the problem. You will probably have to remove the corrosion and dirt ABOVE the piston seal in the caliper bore -- stuck pistons overheat the rubber dust boot, it fails, and crud collects in the top part of the bore. You can use fine sandpaper or Scotchbrite (better) to do this -- just remove the crud till you see clean steel and DON'T abrade the lower part of the bore. A bit tricky, but necessary. Any scratches in the lower part of the bore will cause the piston to stick sooner or later. Never use any abrasives of any kind on the piston, just brake parts cleaner. I've never seen anything on a piston that wasn't junk from corrosion that wouldn't come off with brake parts cleaner. Rust or corrosion on the piston below the point where the seal will sit with the piston all the way back into the piston means new calipers, they will never work again.

Stuck rear pistons will give you exactly the symptoms you have -- normal to high pedal, rather hard, and not so hot braking. You will also have poor braking in reverse, with the front tires sliding more than normal.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!