91 300E takes two times to start - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

A Khan · #1 09-30-2003, 12:32 PM

I got a 91 300E (85,000 miles) and always had this problem ever since I bought it last year. It quickly starts and immediately dies (usually happens in cold weather). Starting again is no problem. However, when starting in warmer weather it takes couple of seconds or more of cranking then it starts up with slight hesitation and idles fine.

During the summer I replaced the fuel filter, EGA, fuel acculmator, spark plugs (the heavy duty Bosch), OVP and spark plug (Beru) wires and the problem remains. Any ideas what can be the cause.

Duke2.6 · #2 09-30-2003, 01:40 PM

Normal! If you look over the last few of days of thread topics you will find at least two threads on this subject along with an explanation of why this is the case and how to mitigate it.

There is nothing wrong with your car!

Duke

zorin · #3 10-01-2003, 04:53 AM

1. Your car might be running a little lean . (check output at the diagnostic port) or
2. The ignition coil might be not as healthy as it should be.

A Khan · #4 10-01-2003, 02:34 PM

The iginition coil was replaced when I did the tune up and I checked it again and it's fine. I also did look at the old threads but their solutions I have already done. I am out of solutions for now but I wonder how many 300E are there that take two times to start.

haasman · #5 10-01-2003, 02:59 PM

After I use a bottle of Techron in less than a full tank, I don't have this problem.

Haasman

A Khan · #6 10-01-2003, 03:20 PM

I used Redline fuel system cleaner and afterwards always used 2 oz whenever I filled the tank up. If the injectors were clogged then why would the car start up right away and die?

haasman · #7 10-01-2003, 03:30 PM

A Khan

It could be that using a fuel system cleaner is different than an injector cleaner.

I don't think you need to add fuel system cleaner with every tankful. I don't.

What brand of fuel do you use?

Which plugs (Beru) are you using?

What do you do with your foot when it starts?

Have you tried turning on the key and then waiting two seconds?

Haasman

A Khan · #8 10-01-2003, 03:37 PM

Hi Haasman,
I used to use BP but stopped using that brand and started using Citgo (3 months now and no more bouncing gas gauges). I am using Bosch heavy duty spark plugs and the Redline fuel system cleaner is also a injector cleaner.

Yes, I always wait couple of seconds for the fuel pump to start. I just think that this a defect that can be hard to trace or it's very common with this model. Maybe next summer (it's getting cold in Chicago) I will try to replace the injectors and see if that helps (but I doubt it) because right now my car idles great.

haasman · #9 10-01-2003, 03:43 PM

A Khan

I bet the bouncing fuel gauge was solved by the Redline additive. They make good products. Often the tiny wires in the sending unit get coated with crud over the years.

Which model of Bosch plugs? Specifically? Are they the multi-electrode?

Haasman

Benz300 · #10 10-01-2003, 03:45 PM

A Khan,
My 260E does exactly the same thing. Only difference is that during the first crank in the morning it starts up fine. but once the car is warm and i try to restart it afterwards, the first crank is always unsuccessfull. it starts and dies right away . i almost always have to crank it again and it starts up fine on the second one.
Reading some previous posts people suggested it could be vapors in the fuel lines accumulated, etc etc. there were many theories behind it which, when I added up, were costing anywhere from a 1000 to 3000 dollars. I really didn't think trying to get away from cranking twice was worth that much and all the trips to the mech. to try to troubleshoot all the parts. Hence I installed a remote starter and now I just remote start it before I'm entering the car. The first time always fails but the remote start senses that and starts it up again. so by the time i'm in the car, it has already started

The rest is your choice. good luck with it. But from what I've read a lot of 300E owners had this problem and couldn't pin point the problem area. It was basically just changing parts till you get lucky and the problem goes away.

A Khan · #11 10-01-2003, 09:59 PM

When the fuel gauge was bouncing I replaced it with a new gauge and after of couple of fills at BP it started again. Changed gas about a month ago bouncing decreased. The spark plugs I replaced were Bosch Heavy Duty (HDCO).

Zorin pointed out to check the output of diagnostic port. Where is this located? It could be a lean mixture at startup since it hiccups a little when starting then idels fine. It's just the seems like if it has the right amount of fuel when starting then it won't die.

I don't plan to continue spending money at parts (e.g. fuel injectors) but I guess it's fun when you work on a car and replace old items with new it gives a great feeling that you accomplished something for a second until you learn that it did not fix the problem.

pesuazo · #12 10-01-2003, 10:31 PM

Interesting.
I have used Amoco 93 (now BP) for years. Now all of a sudden, my gas gauge works intermittently. Sometimes it jumps between empty and whatever the tank has.
Where is the sensor located, is it reachable from the trunk, or underneath the car?
I am thinking is a bad electrical contact.

Duke2.6 · #13 10-01-2003, 10:34 PM

Seriously, I think you guys should save you money and energy for a real problem when it shows up. Old cars get cranky and cantakerous when they get into middle and old age. So will we - if we haven't already. The KE fuel system is either an engineering marvel or or a kluge depending on your point of view.

Try giving it a little throttle just as it catches and it will probably stay running or try opening the throttle a little before cranking. Play around with different techniques until you find one that works.

I went around and around with the dealer service manager and Merc service rep about the poor starting characteristics of these engines when my car was new, especially the two tries at cold starting in mild temperatures and two tries at hot starting after about 30 minutes to an hour after being shut down from fully warmed up. Interestingly, the starting problems appear to have mitigated as the car aged, but I only drive it in winter now, and use another car for summer.

After they finally gave me enough real engineering data on the KE system I accepted its behavior and adjusted my operating habits. Cars aren't smart enough to adapt to our preferences, so it's a lot easier and cheaper for us to adapt to their idiosyncracies.

Duke

#14 10-02-2003, 12:01 AM

My car used to start fine on first key cold or warm.

After I replaced a failing fuel distributor, the car starts on first key when warm but when cold, starts on 1st key and dies unless I step on the gas pedal.

Wierd!:p

sgrandalski · #15 10-02-2003, 02:42 AM

I have a 92 190E 2.6 and it does the same thing. It can not be the coil, the plugs, the plug wires, or the gas you use if it always starts the second time. I have not totally troubleshot mine yet but heres what I think....

When you first try to start the car...it starts up and then dies because there was enough gas in the injectors to start the car, but then that gas gets used up and the car cant get the gas back up to the injectors to keep it running. The gas has to be somehow flowing back down away from the injectors. How, I dont know...by virtue of the fuel pumps that Mercedes have you would think that as soon as you turn the key the pumps would start trying to force the gas up to the injectors. I have some have changed out there fuel pumps, the relays, and the fuel filter and this has not solved the problem. I have read almost every thread regarding this subject and I dont think that anyone can give you a definitive answer that will fix it the first time. I just bought my 190E so I am new to Mercedes and their what seem to be common problems, but give me some time and I'll figure it out.

As for now, I suggest to just deal with it and be prepared to turn the key twice.

SKI