140 owners - IR keys - need owners to call with VINs - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Will_w202 · #1 04-09-2018, 02:09 PM

See this thread on Benzworld:

Do you own a 140? IR KEYS NLA, Call MBUSA and post here after doing so! - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC.

Customer Assistance Center

1 Mercedes-Benz Drive.

Sandy Springs, GA 30328

Tel: 800-367-6372

Post here or there after you call. Need to light a fire under their asses and the documented way to do this is for owners to call in with their VINs, and complain that keys are NLA.

To be clear, your 140 is a BRICK if your last transponder key fails. ALL KEYS are NLA - remotes, plus the service keys.

97 SL320 · #2 04-09-2018, 06:56 PM

The solution is _not_ to complain, that will do nothing no matter what company you are dealing with.

A possible solution is to place a deposit on new keys. If enough _paid for orders_ are placed, they might be able to go to the vendor and get more made.

Remember, MB does not make the keys, they contract with a vendor. The MB parts depot does cut and program keys near as I can tell.

Will_w202 · #3 04-09-2018, 07:52 PM

Customer care says give it 6 months and call back, that is their recommended course of action. You're suggesting call MBUSA and tell them they can charge my card for $300 or so and that will help them procure a new supplier? Yeah, ok.

The solution IS to complain, loudly. Do you need keys? Probably not. The car brand with the single-biggest claim to legacy-model support can;t even get a f*cking key for a 20 year old model? And that's not a big deal? Not worth complaining about?

This applies to 129s as well, anything post-96 with the IR key that runs off a transponder. Hundreds of thousands of cars.

97 SL320 · #4 04-10-2018, 09:18 AM

I'm basing my response on the BW post. I've pretty heavily researched the DAS system on the 97 R129 / W210 / W202

My point is real orders matter more than " I want to get something ( but when it comes down to it I won't pay the $ . ) " I've seen this with enough group buys where many say they want something but when it comes time to pay they don't.

If MB sees actual sales of keys decline, they are not going to risk making another batch that may never sell in significant numbers. If there are actual orders, MB will have more made since they can make $ on the sale.

In any event, can the clipped headed " pocket " key still be gotten? This does not have remote functions but will open and start the car. These were $ 45 in 2012 .

The IR portion of the key will work from car to car, pull the remote battery, wait, then put it back in. With the remote facing the car, click twice then insert key into ignition and turn on. The car now should recognize the remote.

Check E bay, you can get a reader ( $ 75 last I checked, I have one and it works ) that will pull data from the DAS box and program the RFID chip. ( PCF7931 or PCF7935 , about $ 3 - 5 last I checked ) The RFID chip is separate from the IR remote and does not need a working remote to start the car.

Lastly, the biggest killer of keys is a weak car battery that disrupts the read / write cycle when system voltage drops too low during cranking. These keys send a code to the DAS box, if the DAS box expects this specific code, the car is released to run. The DAS box then sends a new code to the key and updates it's internal table. Interrupt this cycle and you are out of sync with the code table.

ILUVMILS · #5 04-10-2018, 12:11 PM

FWIW, MB dealer parts departments don't take deposits on key orders. All orders must be paid in full at the time the order is placed. In the case of the older cars there's nothing to order so it's not possible to prepay.

After spending nearly my entire adult life working at MB dealerships I can tell you that the way to get results IS to complain to MBUSA, and the more complaints they get the better the chance that they'll take action......

wolf_walker · #6 04-10-2018, 01:00 PM

Porsche flat out will not make a lot of parts once they sell out until they have enough, fully paid, orders to justify it. And they are pretty up front about it.
I've seen this process take from three months to two years.
Folks pay, and wait, because it's a Porsche.

97 SL320 · #7 04-11-2018, 08:23 AM

I call " complain " too harsh, I'd call " hey, a bunch of us will buy keys if you make them " much better.

Here are numbers for my 97 SL 320 , can someone please check if the clipped head pocket key is still available? This would alleviate some of the no key drama.

Clipped head pocket key
BQ 4 76 0009

And just for completeness, here is the IR flip key number
A140 760 22 06

Also note, the 97 W202 and maybe the 97 W210 uses what appears to be the same IR remote but with a narrower blade.

pawoSD · #8 07-19-2018, 12:16 AM

My dad has one of these vehicles (2001 R129 SL500) and his planning on giving MBUSA a call in the very near future to add to the complaints. I may do it too, just because I find it ridiculous that they would discontinue a KEY of all things.

ILUVMILS · #9 07-19-2018, 12:00 PM

Just a quick update.......MBUSA has received TONS of complaints regarding the key situation. The problem is that they can't find a vendor/supplier willing to manufacture them. I suppose that if the demand were greater it would make it easier, as in financially viable, for a supplier to re-tool in order to make enough keys to be profitable. I would encourage MB owners to keep the pressure on...........

pawoSD · #10 07-29-2018, 08:27 PM

I find it extremely hard to believe that they can't find somewhere to make these keys. If they'd turn over the plans to the R129 or W140 a company in china would probably willingly copy and produce the entire car....

There's nothing that special about they keys/fobs, they just need to submit the requirements to a supplier (likely in China) who manufactures keys/electronics, I bet they'd have plenty of them in no time.

w123fanman · #11 07-29-2018, 09:22 PM

FWIW, I don't know if all dealers require you to pay upfront for keys. When I had to get a key for my 190E after my brother managed to lose the only key I had (just bought the car), the dealer took my order then had me pay when the key came in. They quoted me $75 per key so I only ordered one, it came in and I was only charged $30.

This wouldn't be as much of a problem if Mercedes designed and allowed the keys to be copied like you can with most domestic makes at any Ace Hardware...

Also FWIW, I can't get much of any parts, including remotes and seat belts, for my LS400. Both of front seat belts are shot like 90% of the ones I see in the yards, fortunately there's a place that says they can try to rebuild them.

porkface · #12 07-29-2018, 09:43 PM

[QUOTE=w123fanman

This wouldn't be as much of a problem if Mercedes designed and allowed the keys to be copied like you can with most domestic makes at any Ace Hardware...

ever since the soviet union broke up, car theft in w. europe took a big swing up. that's why all the hoops we have to go through to get keys, modules, etc. thank the russian bootleggers. chuck

w123fanman · #13 07-29-2018, 11:39 PM

[QUOTE=porkface;3833384][QUOTE=w123fanman

This wouldn't be as much of a problem if Mercedes designed and allowed the keys to be copied like you can with most domestic makes at any Ace Hardware...

ever since the soviet union broke up, car theft in w. europe took a big swing up. that's why all the hoops we have to go through to get keys, modules, etc. thank the russian bootleggers. chuck[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I meant the chip keys. Ace can remake certain chip keys, had it done a while back and now that I remember it, it was for a 2003 Dodge Sprinter so they can make some of these keys but not sure if they're licensed to make Mercedes ones.

JimFreeh · #14 07-31-2018, 05:03 PM

[QUOTE=97 SL320;380406
Lastly, the biggest killer of keys is a weak car battery that disrupts the read / write cycle when system voltage drops too low during cranking. These keys send a code to the DAS box, if the DAS box expects this specific code, the car is released to run. The DAS box then sends a new code to the key and updates it's internal table. Interrupt this cycle and you are out of sync with the code table.[/QUOTE]

I had this mismatch happen on our 99 BMW Z3.
One day the car just cranked, no start, had to tow home.

I found a place online that would disable the key to computer handshake. Had to send in a component or two, as I recall..... Bottom line is that the "fix" has worked for the last 4 years......

I had the no start problem on our W140 as well (99 S500), ended up swapping out the components from a parts W140 to get it going. One of the things I remember is that we took a key and the sensor ring that circumnavigates the ignition key and taped them together under the dash. That way the ring senses the right key, and the lock is now purely a mechanical lock. Never did see a similar service offered for MB that I used for the BMW.

Jim