190E / W201 does not move - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

optronik · #1 12-15-2012, 07:53 PM

Hello,

I have a 1993 190E with automatic transmission which suddenly stopped moving. First I thought the drive shaft got disconnected from the transmission or a flexdisc broke. It is not the case. I lifted the real axle so that the wheels can turn freely. If I rotate them the drive shaft on the exit of the transmission rotates too.
If the shift lever is moved out of park nothing changes, no rotation on the drive shaft.
If the engine is running and I press on the gas pedal the speedometer follows the engine rpm.
If the shift lever is moved in park there is a periodic clicking noise.

What can be the reason for this problem ?

Holmesuser01 · #2 12-15-2012, 10:08 PM

From your description, I'd think it's pull the transmission time.

Maybe the shaft has broken inside the case?

On my '84, the speedometer gear is on the output shaft. There is a splined shaft back there and the adaptor for the flex disc is on that shaft.

The clicking when you put it in park is probably the parking pawl clicking on the still spinning shaft.

Best of luck. Please let us know what you find.

If it turns out to be something to do with the flex disc, I'll be amazed that it didnt destroy anything when it let go.

optronik · #3 12-15-2012, 10:14 PM

Thanks for the hints. The failure happened while starting the car in the morning and going into reverse to get out of the parking spot.
There is definitely nothing moving on the trans output shaft.

One other "easy" cause could be that the transmission is not receiving the shift lever commands. Maybe the shift lever does not fully engage into park any more so that the clicking noise is produced in the transmission ? Does anyone know how this could be checked ?

pawoSD · #4 12-16-2012, 02:02 AM

If the speedometer rises with RPM then something failed inside the rear of the transmission as the speedometer reads off the end of the shaft in the tail piece....transmission likely needs rebuild or replacement. The transmission on my 300SD died after using reverse too. Later on I found broken pieces of clutch band inside the pan along with tons of clutch material.

97 SL320 · #5 12-16-2012, 09:07 AM

Someone on the SL list had the splines fail in the trans output flange, that would cause what you describe.

Put the trans in park and see if you can turn the drive shaft. ( it should remain locked )

########
If I rotate ( the wheels ) them the drive shaft on the exit of the transmission rotates too.

If the shift lever is moved out of park nothing changes, no rotation on the drive shaft.
#########

Your two statements conflict each other.

Some transmissions wear splines in drive shells , clutch discs but I would not expect the trans to drive the speedo.

optronik · #6 12-16-2012, 01:32 PM

More details:

- Engine off, shift lever in park, rotate rear wheels manually: no noise and no counterforce
- Engine on, shift lever in park: no clicking noise
- Engine on, shift lever in neutral: speed follows rpm
- Engine on, shift lever in drive, 3, 2: speed follows rpm
- Engine on, shift lever back in park: clicking noise
- Turn engine off and on again without moving shift lever: no clicking noise any more

optronik · #7 12-16-2012, 02:24 PM

I found a picture of the assembly of the transmission tail. Part 30 seems to be the wheel for the speedometer, part 10 looks like the wheel for the park lock. There is not much on the way to part 110 that connects to the drive shaft.

97 SL320 · #8 12-16-2012, 03:06 PM

Based on all of your #6 post, the trans output flange has worn out splines.

#####

Engine on, shift lever back in park: clicking noise

####

The clicking noise is from the parking pawl trying to engage the parking gear. ( think driving down the road then shifting into park. . . . )

Pull the drive shaft , output flange nut and remove the flange. It would be a good idea to pull the til housing and inspect the ball bearing / clean up metal shavings. This type of repair has been a few times on the Tech , Diesel and SL list so a quick search would net some info.

pmckechnie · #9 12-16-2012, 05:20 PM

number 120 loose.

Paul

whunter · #10 12-16-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optronik

Hello,

I have a 1993 190E with automatic transmission which suddenly stopped moving. First I thought the drive shaft got disconnected from the transmission or a flexdisc broke. It is not the case. I lifted the real axle so that the wheels can turn freely. If I rotate them the drive shaft on the exit of the transmission rotates too.
If the shift lever is moved out of park nothing changes, no rotation on the drive shaft.
If the engine is running and I press on the gas pedal the speedometer follows the engine rpm.
If the shift lever is moved in park there is a periodic clicking noise.

What can be the reason for this problem ?

Here is your issue, and solution.
Output flange, 722.xxx transmission

.

optronik · #11 12-16-2012, 06:54 PM

Thanks, I will look at it immediately !

optronik · #12 12-18-2012, 03:27 PM

I want to let you know the findings.

The output flange nut came loose as suspected by some of you. The most likely reason for this was that the driveshaft and the output flange were connected wrong to the flex disc. The purpose of the flexdisc is to decouple transmission from the drive shaft from a rotation/torque point. Therefore the coupling between both is made with the rubber of the flex disc. On my car the output flange was bolted directly to the driveshaft through the flex disc. In other words the flex disc was only used as a spacer but not as a decoupler. So 3 screws were used only to fill the remaining holes in the disc :-) I assume that vibration and shear forces made the nut of the output flange came loose.

You may want to check your car if the previous owner/service messed it up, too.

Thank you for your quick support !

Holmesuser01 · #13 12-19-2012, 06:22 PM

Hope you dont have damage under there. This stuff can get expensive real fast.

Glad you didnt have to pull the transmission.

whunter · #14 12-19-2012, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optronik

I want to let you know the findings.

The output flange nut came loose as suspected by some of you. The most likely reason for this was that the driveshaft and the output flange were connected wrong to the flex disc. The purpose of the flexdisc is to decouple transmission from the drive shaft from a rotation/torque point. Therefore the coupling between both is made with the rubber of the flex disc. On my car the output flange was bolted directly to the driveshaft through the flex disc. In other words the flex disc was only used as a spacer but not as a decoupler. So 3 screws were used only to fill the remaining holes in the disc :-) I assume that vibration and shear forces made the nut of the output flange came loose.

You may want to check your car if the previous owner/service messed it up, too.

Thank you for your quick support !

I am happy it is a simple, and relatively cheap repair.

I will be happier when you are done, and cruising down the road with

Have a great day.

.