1986 190E isn't gettin fuel from distribution - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

2020pup · #76 05-14-2009, 11:12 PM

The plugs are Autolite (104). Haven't checked the firing assignment or anything yet..Will check it tomorrow. Plugs are gapped at .35..Going to go through all of timing..Think also I'm going to put number one back in and pull another one to see if i get the same reaction! Give me 30 mins and I'll post what happens...DAMMIT LIVES!!!!!......DAMMIT LIVES...!!!!!!!!!

cliffmac · #77 05-14-2009, 11:40 PM

OK, you guys have beaten this right into the earth itself...this is way beyond the attention being given to this. Just do a complete tune up on the thing and, as was mentioned, replace the coolant temp sensor...try that and get back to us...I would think around $400 out the door for all of that, including an oil change....I bet the thing will run fine...hell, you could do this for around $100 if you are able...best of luck

2020pup · #78 05-14-2009, 11:44 PM

I'm back. I started Dammit and let it run for about 5 mins with only 3 plugs in it.I touched all 4 exhaust pipes (exhaust looks like a 4-1 header). Number 1 was the only cold one of course. Number 1 was out. So I put 1 back in and tried to fire it up and it just wouldn't start. Then I left number 1 in and pulled #3 out and it started and ran. Checked #1 pipe and it was hot this time..Put 3 back in and pulled 4 it started and ran..Put 4 back in and it won't run..So my conclusion is...hell if I know. Just happy it will start..

cliffmac · #79 05-14-2009, 11:47 PM

seriously, go get the (new) proper Bosch Copper Plus plugs ($21), a proper oil change ($40) and a new coolant temp sensor ($32)....install them yourself or have whomever...regardless..that's less than $100 out the door if you do it yourself....this worked for me....on a 1990 300TE...runs great...
and this has been for over 1 year...absolutely no issues.....good luck for cheap....

2020pup · #80 05-14-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffmac

OK, you guys have beaten this right into the earth itself...this is way beyond the attention being given to this. Just do a complete tune up on the thing and, as was mentioned, replace the coolant temp sensor...try that and get back to us...I would think around $400 out the door for all of that, including an oil change....I bet the thing will run fine...hell, you could do this for around $100 if you are able...best of luck

I'm sorry if you don't like my feedback!! And if it is disturbing you, my apologies. The reason I've tried to be or should we say "beaten this right into earth" is to try and help others look at ALL the possibilities. I'm not a MB master and I'm sure that others that are reading this are not either. Good day

slk230red · #81 05-15-2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2020pup

I've replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, spark plugs, wires, cap and button and i drained and flushed the gas tank. I have good fuel pressure coming in to the fuel distribution and out. I have fuel pressure at the cold start valve. But no fuel will come out of the four lines from the distribution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffmac

OK, you guys have beaten this right into the earth itself...this is way beyond the attention being given to this. Just do a complete tune up on the thing and, as was mentioned, replace the coolant temp sensor...try that and get back to us...I would think around $400 out the door for all of that, including an oil change....I bet the thing will run fine...hell, you could do this for around $100 if you are able...best of luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffmac

seriously, go get the (new) proper Bosch Copper Plus plugs ($21), a proper oil change ($40) and a new coolant temp sensor ($32)....install them yourself or have whomever...regardless..that's less than $100 out the door if you do it yourself....this worked for me....on a 1990 300TE...runs great...
and this has been for over 1 year...absolutely no issues.....good luck for cheap....

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2020pup

I'm sorry if you don't like my feedback!! And if it is disturbing you, my apologies. The reason I've tried to be or should we say "beaten this right into earth" is to try and help others look at ALL the possibilities. I'm not a MB master and I'm sure that others that are reading this are not either. Good day

I would definitely get new Bosch Spark Plugs. I use the recommended Bosch Non-Resistor type myself. I didn't recommend a tune-up since he stated he replaced the spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor.

You know, its' hard to diagnose a no start condition over the internet, especially when the car was purchased in a "not running" condition, and maybe it is the Coolant Temp. Sensor. And yes, I have seen other posts over the years that have had no start issues and it turned out to be the wrong type of spark plugs. A good start is to always do a basic tune-up and check all of the obvious things. I have seen some members replace part after part and get very frustrated when new parts don't resolve their problem. That's why I like to test components when possible.

Brent, cliffmac is giving you his opinion about your no start condition and if he has experienced a no start condition like yours and replacing the coolant temp. sensor fixed it, then it is definitely worth considering. That's how the forum works.
We're all trying to help while maintaining a positive attitude to get your car running.

Dave

Ivanerrol · #82 05-15-2009, 12:58 AM

Replaced Distributor,leads and plugs - with new? If you can't get Bosch coppers get NGK non resistives.
As posted earlier on make sure you have the firing order correct on the leads from dissie to plugs.

pentoman · #83 05-15-2009, 08:01 AM

Surely something to do with ignition then.... my guess (not educated) is the coil - not strong enough to perform 4 sparks per cycle, but it can manage 3 sparks per cycle. You could try running it with a plug removed but still plugged into its lead and earthed (sparking) to see if this is true?

Failing that, something to do with lower compression due to the removed plug meaning it's easier to keep turning over??? Doesn't really make any sense if those cyilnders are otherwise firing..

Good going trying it with a plug out, never would have thought of that!

I think we need to see some pictures of this beast from the dead!

2020pup · #84 05-15-2009, 12:59 PM

First let me extend my my apologies to CLIFFMAC. I read a little deeper into you post than I should have. My response was immature, so please except my apology.

Got the day off today. Even though everything looked new I went and got>>>>New wires, cap, plugs (bosch), button. Couldn't get coolant sensor today had to order. Let you guys know what happens.

Putting pic of Dammit online. Rims were bought seperate.Let me know what you think of my yard sale find..

2020pup · #85 05-15-2009, 01:59 PM

New cap, button, wires and plugs were installed. No change. I tried it with all plugs in it and it will barely run. Pull 1 plug out and it fires instantly and will idle. So being brave, I started it and tried to install the plug with it running (make sure and wear glasses if you try this) just to see what happens.On the first attempt, you can imagine the sound of the plug bouncing off my head. On the second attempt, as soon as i got maybe 3 turns on it in the head, it died. I did try it again with the same results. I did try putting the plug in with maybe a turn and 1/2 on it. It did run but really weak. I tested the spark as it ran by earth grounding, and it has really strong spark. I checked the firing order also and it was right too. Question though, Does it wire clockwise or counter? Think maybe timing is set too low?

pentoman · #86 05-15-2009, 06:09 PM

Crikey. Do you think the lack of compression/seal on the one cylinder you remove a plug from affects the intake vacuum in some way? I'm thinking along those lines..... I know that running these with very racey cams causes odd behaviour & pulses in the intake tunnel, which then screws up the functioning of the air flow meter flappy thing. So what can plug removal affect in the intake...?

I suppose I would still bear in mind the fact the engine is just plain easier to turn over when it's only compressing 3 cylinders of air not 4. Is it possible the compression is too high?? With regards timing - I would guess that taking off a plug lead would negate the possibility of a cylinder firing at the wrong time and causing it to stall. Could be worth it to remove the cam cover to see if the valves are opening as expected etc?

Ignition timing on a 190E is set by the computer; the distributor has an adjustment but it's a leftover from when it wasn't computer controlled, I'm told. Could the distributor have slipped? Maybe I suppose but still seems weird that you have to completely remove a plug to negate the problem.

Errr.. continued good luck, it's interesting reading whether not I'm a help I've no idea but hope it doesn't hurt reading my musings.

tinypanzer · #87 05-15-2009, 06:44 PM

Okay, you have done some troubleshooting and your test is telling us something, but I'm not sure what yet. Here are some possibilities:

1) Does the engine die with the #1 plug installed but not connected, or does connecting it cause it to die? What I am getting at is, is removing the plug making it run, or pulling the spark plug wire?

If it's pulling the wire that makes it run, I would suspect the cap or the coil. Hey Arthur, does this car have the same series wasted spark setup that my car has?

If it's pulling the plug that makes it work, then we have to look at what pulling the plug causes. First, it should cause a big decrease in manifold vacuum since one cylinder is sucking air from the spark plug hole and not the intake port. The decrease in vacuum should cause the air meter plate to deflect less, which will give you a leaner fuel mixture.

I'm beginning to think that you have the opposite problem of what you assumed initially and that you might be getting too much gas, until you pull a plug and drop your vacuum..... Are you seeing soot in your tailpipe? If you pull out one of those new plugs, is there evidence of soot fouling? Of course it is also possible that you are in fact too lean and that four injectors squirting into a manifold with only three cylinders sucking intake is required to make it run.... Tough to say from here....

If too rich, there could be leaky injectors.

Look down deep inside your fuel meter bowl. Porkface once pointed out to me that if you see fuel down there, it's either leaking out of the injectors or the bottom of the distributor.

How much does the air meter plate get pulled down at idle? It shouldn't be much at all. If it is going down too far, you will get too much gas and the engine will quit.

If the fuel pressure regulator is vacuum referenced, that could also explain why it will run with a plug pulled. Does anyone know if the FPR is vacuum referenced on this car? On a M103, it's not, but on some other cars...... You might just need a new FPR......

MB Doc? Arthur Dalton? This is out of my league for distance diagnosis....

2020pup · #88 05-16-2009, 12:31 AM

pentoman..i'm not sure if the distributor has been moved or not..I couldn't find my timing light. as far as cranking the car, it seems the same to me as in its not dragging with four plugs in it. when i try it with three it starts almost instantly. I mean not even (it sounds) a full turn.. thanks for your ideas

tinypanzer..it doesn't matter which plug i pull out. one plug has to be physically out of the head. I dont see any soot from the tailpipe but funny you should mention the plugs. they have only been ran in the car for maybe 15 minutes and the are black looking. the air meter plate doesn't seem to get sucked down any..

tinypanzer · #89 05-16-2009, 12:37 AM

The air meter deflection should be barely noticeable at idle, so that sounds like it is normal.

The soot on your plugs does tend to indicate a rich situation.

Granted, they're never getting up to temperature with such short runs, so they're not self cleaning, but it still sounds like too much fuel.

To test that, try introducing a vacuum leak. If you can get it to run by letting some air in bypassing the meter flap, then you are too rich and I would suspect dripping/leaky injectors.

slk230red · #90 05-16-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2020pup

pentoman..i'm not sure if the distributor has been moved or not..I couldn't find my timing light. as far as cranking the car, it seems the same to me as in its not dragging with four plugs in it. when i try it with three it starts almost instantly. I mean not even (it sounds) a full turn.. thanks for your ideas

tinypanzer..it doesn't matter which plug i pull out. one plug has to be physically out of the head. I dont see any soot from the tailpipe but funny you should mention the plugs. they have only been ran in the car for maybe 15 minutes and the are black looking. the air meter plate doesn't seem to get sucked down any..

Are you still positive that the Vacuum Hoses are connected at all locations on both sides of the Idle Control Valve, especially under the throttle?
At idle, you should see the plate getting sucked down a little.