Insurance Arguments over E500 Value - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Peter Guenther · #16 10-21-2007, 10:08 AM

I dont know if this works any more, our El Dorato (Cad) was hit broadside by a bimbette putting on lipstick.
I never should have got out of the car, with glass in my hair, and should have taken myself to the emergency room. Her insurance wanted to use recycled parts, especially the door. They also wanted their body shop to do the work, my insurance agent wanted no part of their plan, so we had the car fixed at the Cadillac dealer, I paid the deductible, and they went for "subrocation", they got their money back minus $1000 I got a good repair.

Jim B. · #17 10-21-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvpierce

First off, when determining "book" value, go with NADA (not KBB). NADA stands for National Auto Dealers Association: so who do you think the figures favor in that book? Exactly, the dealers... so the prices are higher.

Also, this would be a totally different situation if the accident were your fault and you were dealing with YOUR insurance company. You have a "contract" with your insurance company. You've agreed to an annual premium based on the replacement value of your car as determined by "book" value. If you feel the car is worth more than "book" then you need to speak with your agent and pay a higher premium for a higher replacement cost.

You have no "contract" with this insurance company. They don't just owe you some arbitrary figure for your car, they need to make you whole. You had a perfectly functioning, well maintained car... now you don't! They need to either repair your car to the condition it was before their client destroyed it, or they need to buy you a comparable car.
(The words in bold are the most important.) Why should you have to comb through the classified ads, and ebay to find the car from a private seller? You should be able to get the replacement from a dealer. (so then we're talking RETAIL price)

If they offer a lowball figure, tell them to go ahead and find a replacement for that price. (they won't) And while they're doing that, you'll continue to drive the rental car they are providing. It's amazing how the prospect of them paying $40 a day while you or they hunt endlessly for a car that doesn't exist will motivate them to re-adjust their adjustment.

Good luck, and stick to your guns.

The Insurance company NEVER has to "BUY you a comparable car". It does not work like that

How we wish it did.

remotemark · #18 10-21-2007, 07:44 PM

Thanks, everybody, for the supportive comments and advice. I feel a little better equipped to deal with these people this week now. I did some research today, and have about 16 ads from autotrader and ebay to print out and show that the market value is somewhere north of $13-14k if
they don't want to take the NADA excellent condition value of ca. $17k.

I will spend some tomorrow morning phoning some people at collision shops about towing the car there. I do know one great collision shop where I think I can count on the guys to be my advocate with the adjusters. It's not a big shop. Does anyone think I'm better off going to one of the big collision shops that do a lot of BMW and Mercedes work or maybe a stealership? My concern at those places is that they really won't give a rat's ass about me and my car and won't help me push back on getting new parts instead of used, etc.

Thanks,
Mark

remotemark · #19 10-21-2007, 07:47 PM

By the way, one of the things that really sucks about this is that I've only had the car for a month. Even in that short time, I became convinced that this is the best-driving car ever to cross my path. The only thing that came close for sheer control of the car and its trajectory was my second ever car, a 914-6.

xtreme barton · #20 10-21-2007, 08:05 PM

just see what they want to offer you .. i was in an accident a year ago .. looked my value up on KBB and thats what i expected to get .. come to find out they went by dealership prices and what they would have gone for in the condition it was in .. i was happy with the offer ... dont be intimidated .. they are not the cops .. you have a little more say in what happens and what you think is fair as long as you have the paperwork to back it up

Educaid · #21 10-21-2007, 09:36 PM

You kinda left out the part that you just got the car a month ago. I assume you paid the market price for it and therefore that's what you should get for it if its totaled. What did you pay? Sounds like you want more than what you paid for it.

Jim B. · #22 10-21-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remotemark

I will spend some tomorrow morning phoning some people at collision shops about towing the car there. I do know one great collision shop where I think I can count on the guys to be my advocate with the adjusters. It's not a big shop. Does anyone think I'm better off going to one of the big collision shops that do a lot of BMW and Mercedes work or maybe a stealership? My concern at those places is that they really won't give a rat's ass about me and my car and won't help me push back on getting new parts instead of used, etc.

Thanks,
Mark

Absoloutely correct about the dealer's indifference, though they would probaly use new parts, and could get them quicker than anyone else. Last place you should take a car like an E500 would be a dealer, for body work. E500 fenders are not the same as regular W124 fenders either.

Independent or Specialty Body shops, familiar with your type of car usually deal with a LOT of insurance work, too, and if you are lucky or smart you find one who is in your corner.

They may be able to deal with the special needs of your car, better than a shop unfamiliar with that model. The best of them would be also well skilled in identifying and avoiding the adjuster's short cuts and other ways which they employ to save the Insurance company money

Jim B. · #23 10-21-2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remotemark

By the way, one of the things that really sucks about this is that I've only had the car for a month. Even in that short time, I became convinced that this is the best-driving car ever to cross my path. The only thing that came close for sheer control of the car and its trajectory was my second ever car, a 914-6.

That fact, previously undisclosed here, changes things a lot.

If the car is declared totalled, what would you say to this as a fair formula to arrive a valuation settlement: The purchase price you paid one month ago LESS 25 cents a mile for the number of miles you drove it?

Savvy lawyers hired in "Lemon Law" cases, get good settlements for their clients all the time using that formula. I know that personally.

If you do the numbers, would a settlement price based on that formula satisfy you, (if you had the paperwork to verify the mileage and price, one month ago)?

It would be pretty hard for an insurance company to challenge worth based on that formula. especially in a court of law

Keep in mind the 25 cents a mile is always a negotiable figure: if the adjuster accepts it, he may try and chisel it to 40 cents, to satisfy his company.

It is a big change from a Porsche 914 to a 500E. The 914 looks like a VW Karmann Ghia that has been worked over with the flat side of an axe!

remotemark · #24 10-22-2007, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Educaid

You kinda left out the part that you just got the car a month ago. I assume you paid the market price for it and therefore that's what you should get for it if its totaled. What did you pay? Sounds like you want more than what you paid for it.

I paid 11k for it. I don't want more than that, I just don't want them to insist on totalling the car and giving me the salvage title if the repairs are around 8 to 10k. I want the car and I want it repaired.

I only drove the car about 250 miles.

remotemark · #25 10-22-2007, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

It is a big change from a Porsche 914 to a 500E. The 914 looks like a VW Karmann Ghia that has been worked over with the flat side of an axe!

Obviously, the E500 is a much better looking car. It also is nice not to have the engine about six inches from your ears. I just mean the responsiveness of the car's suspension and steering on the 914 were similarly slot-car like and the torque-to-weight similarly makes you feel like you could drive up a tree at high speed or do one of those hollywood drawbridge jump scenes.

remotemark · #26 10-22-2007, 12:13 PM

Well, a tidge of good news, the other driver's insurer, State Farm, has already accepted liability for the accident. I guess that since we were sitting at a red light, they couldn't say much different.

tvpierce · #27 10-22-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Educaid

You kinda left out the part that you just got the car a month ago. I assume you paid the market price for it and therefore that's what you should get for it if its totaled. What did you pay? Sounds like you want more than what you paid for it.

You can't logically make that assumption. Maybe there were extraordinary circumstances that affected the price (estate sale, seller moving out of town, seller lost job… needs money, etc.). Maybe the seller just didn’t know what the car was worth.

When the car was purchased, and for what price are immaterial. If he was able to negotiate or leverage a deal on the purchase, that’s his business – it in no way affects the value.

By that logic, if he bought it through an estate auction for $1000, that would be the value? Absolutely not!

And a very important point about retail value versus private party value: There is a certain amount of risk associated with buying any used car. Buying from a dealer minimizes that risk because you get some sort of warrantee – usually 30 days. But you pay for that reduction in risk. If you settle for the “private party” price you’re assuming an unreasonable amount of risk so that the insurance company can save a few bucks. Remember, you were sitting at a stoplight doing nothing wrong. Part of making you whole is NOT exposing you to an unreasonable degree of risk.

Another quick note: The insurance company is going to want you to sign off on the work, so they can close the claim quickly. There is no advantage to you by doing this. Let it lay for a few weeks or a month. Make sure no other damage crops up that is a result of the accident. Because once the claim is closed, you’re out of luck. Don't be unethical, but don't be stranded either.

Again, good luck.

remotemark · #28 10-23-2007, 10:13 AM

My shop estimated $6-8k barring any big surprises. Looks like I may have to have the valuation fight.

As for the recent purchase issue, I agree with TVPierce, why should the valuation be based on something other than value? At the end of the day, I am not looking to make a profit over my 11k purchase price, but I did also spend $850 in registration taxes and $700 to have the car trucked to me. I can't view those costs as amortized in any way as they came out of my pocket a month ago. If they total the car, I won't feel unethical arguing for a payout which includes those additional costs.

nhdoc · #29 10-23-2007, 11:36 AM

You haven't even been made an offer yet and you're already anticipating a fight. State Farm is probably one of the better companies, so sit back, relax, let the adjuster do his thing and see what they say. Why get worked up over an issue that may never develop? You may just be pleasantly surprised with the way the whole thing gets handled...if not then you at least know what direction you can go.

It seems to me that if you paid $11,000 for it and only drove it 250 miles since then you have a pretty convincing case right there for establishing its minimum value...nobody will want to argue with a straight face that the car depreciated substantially in 250 miles.

remotemark · #30 10-27-2007, 08:05 AM

Well, State Farm authorized the shop to spend $7500 on a "first ticket" with $2500 available supplements with backed up estimates. They're being a little coy about what the driver's policy limits are. I'm now just worried that the bill will get to ten k and then more will be needed but they won't pay. Then I'll have to go to my comprehensive policy and its deductible. Anyway, NHDoc is right, I am good at imagining the potential problems.