Lambo's have horrible AC, and the interiors up until VW came along were a joke. I'd buy one in a heart beat though.

Ferrari's have there issues as well, frankly I couldn't care less.

MB had very weak AC systems until recently. But I think thats more because in Germany the AC was fine and they figured it would be good for everyone else as well.

MB seems to have fixed this with the W140 and W210. In there latest models the AC is as good as anything. But that goes for pretty much all modern cars as well.

Nissan Maxima's had weak AC for quite a while as well. I remember a while back when my grandfather had the 95 you had to blast it to get any results on super hot days.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

If you can't afford the repair bills on a Mercedes then the only logical choice is to buy something cheaper. I drive Mercedes cars because they are extremly comfortable and well made and last a long time. Your also basing your opinion on an 18 year old car. How many 18 year old Japanese cars are on the road anymore? Once they hit 200K they are scrap metal.

I have owned several Japanese comodity cars in the past and have not been pleased with them. Recently I sold a 2002 Honda Accord Coupe that I bought new with only 17K miles on it when I finally ditched it. This "icon of reliability" car was in the shop several times for issues with its brakes. Various squeeks and rattles and problems with its power sterring system. Honda has several open issues on this car with the NHTSA. One of them I found paticularly amusing was a problem with the sunroof which caused it to squeek. They discovered this in 1998 and did not do anything about it even in my end of production 2002 car. If I had not lost my patience the brakes alone could have qualified this car for a lemon law buyback.

Japanese cars are cheap to maintain but they are not comfortable and not well made. They are cheap commodity cars built for consumers who are don't know any better who want affordable transportation. They are by no way on the same level of engineering or quality as a Mercedes Benz. From my experience with my Accord I would say that ALL car makers are basing their reputations on the past and that ALL cars are being made cheaper to increase profits at the ultimate expense of the consumer.

Its one of the reasons I refuse to buy new anymore.

My brother had a 1996 Nissan Maxima SE that we never could get the A/C working right on. Several trips to the dealership later and the service advisor pretty much admitted that since he had a charcoal gray car with a black leather interior that the A/C was never going to really cool well. He finally traded the car on his 1983 300D because after several trips to dealerships and independant mechanics and every part being replaced in the emssions system the check engine light would not turn off.

"On my '88 300CE, at just 10 years old there were 3 separate gaskets, transmission and upper and lower oil gaskets, that cost $500, and $600 for the upper and lower to fix. That's $1100 in case you don't have a calculator. The cost of the actual gasket is about $10 to MB, $20 to the consumer."

~Thanks for the heads up on the gaskets. I'm driving the same year and model car right now. So far it's a tank. And since it has pillarless windows and a large sunroof I never run the AC. Seems a wasteful power drain when the breeze is just great with the windows down. All the power window switches work just fine. I guess they were used often by the two owners before me. And the AC is pretty good too. Maybe it was used a bit too. Seems fine for now. Not at all shabby for an 18 year old car with 110K on the clock.

So far I have spent $100 in repairs, had the throttle linkages rebuilt and got a new oil cap. And since the car only cost $2,000 I'm simply averaging it into the intial cost. In fact, if I had to put another $1,000 into repairs in the next year it's still getting added to the initial cost. The car is a Southern California model used locally as a highway commuter by the original owner who was an older gentleman. He ordered the car new and took great care of it for the first 12 years. The second owner kept the car in a garage in Beverly Hills and only put 20,000 miles on in the next 6 years. I figure I got a great car at a great price. And anything that needs attention I will dutifully look after. A good tune-up and O2 Sensor for example. It's pretty simple really. if the gaskets need replacing I'll order them and replace them myself which will save the better part of a $1000 bucks.

Thanks again and best of luck with those Toyotas.

Jason

__________________
1988 300CE 120K RIP(Midnight Blue/Parchment)
1987 300E 202K (Arctic White/Palomino)


Now I see the secret of the making of the best persons. It is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth. ~Song of The Open Road

Yes, Its called labor costs. I paid about the same to have my 1988 Volvo 240's transmission resealed. Unless you have a lot of time on your hands or have a shop with a full lift there's no getting around some labor costs.

Toyota's simply end up in the junkyard or need a transmission rebuild before their gaskets deteriorate. Toyota just like Mercedes Benz has to deal with the same physical properties of rubber.

I used to drive Japanese. I just got tired of throwing away my cars when they reached 200K. If your looking for a car that all you do is put gas in it and buy another one in 10 years Japanese is the way to go. If you look at all the costs involved though your paying more money in the long run and driving a cheaply made car. If you like having a new shiny piece of plastic in your driveway thats really the way to go.

I think that we have all gone to far in insulting the W140 cars. I have had A/C problems with my S500 but I still love it and wouldn't trade it for a Japanese or American car for anything.I think that we ALL have to remember that when these cars were built they sold at right at $100,000! That's Rolls-Royce territory. Even the new 2007 S class isn't priced as high if you adjust for inflation. As my mechanic told me when I had a problem with the ACC "You bought a $100,000 car. Even though you only paid $9000 for it, it's STILL a $100,000 car!" When you buy a W140 you need to approach it that way. All of the goodies on a luxury car eventually break. That's a fact of life. Mercedes-Benz was breaking new ground with the W140 and so like all ground breaking products there were things that worked well and things that did not. My Bose Beta sound system works GREAT. The one in my Dad's Cadillac deVille alas did not. I dare you to find a 1993 Lexus that has 157,000 miles on it that hasn't also had issues. I'd also like to know what it would cost to replace like items. For instance, what does it cost to replace an A/C evaporator on an LS400?

In addition, remember that Lexus is just now making a deal about their rain sensing windshield wiper system. The W140 had it back in 1995!

__________________
Old age and treachery will allways overcome youth and skill!

1993 S500
1984 380SL

Yes and no,

I agree with some of your points and not some of the others. While yes many of the 140's were 100K cars my car was a 60-80K car. When a car ages a lot of the 'secret information' that the dealerships whorde becomes public. So the mystery of working on them is not so much of a mystery. When a number of DIY'ers can perform work on cars it limits how much a mechanic can overcharge for the work. Additionally as a car ages many of the cars "dont' make it" and are junked by their owners giving many owners the option of used parts. When this happens the parts vendors have no choice but to lower their prices as well. If your smart enough to see through the snow job that many of the parts vendors and mechanics are still trying to give 140 owners you can save a great deal of money.

I do agree with you on construction quality. 140's are put together with a quality only seen in cars built 20-30 years previously. If you compare the fit and finish of my 126 to my 140 the 126 seems "cheap" in comparison. Construction quality of the 140 chassis MB's is above and beyond the same vintage Rolls Royce cars even as Rolls Royce was seeing a dip in quality in the early to mid 1990's. If you look through history there are several cars that have done this as well. The Pullmans of the 1960's and 1970's and the 300d Adenauer (not the 123 and not a diesel) are great examples of cars that surpassed Rolls Royce quality.

I have to put on my 2 cents on this. if you are only paying 25K to 33K for a car, I don't expect it to match the quality and craftsmanship to match the 140. Some people feel the ride quality, handling, and other mercedes advantages are worth the cost premium. some people don't, so it a personal judgement there. the higher cost of maintence due to labor and parts price is also acceptable to me. higher quality or complicated parts cost more, and if car is more sophicated, need more time and care to troublshoot and repair... fair enough. However, if I am paying 3 to 4 times mroe for a car, the whole car reliability should be at least equal or better than the less expensive cars. I am seeing that mercedes has AC issues for quite a while until the late 90's. To me that is not acceptable for a $100K car. Mercedes has been in the below average reliability rating for quite a while now. I understand all things wear out and need repair, but if you are charging a preminum for your product you should at least have a average reliability rating.

__________________
93 Toyota Corolla 177K
95 S 500 coupe 82K
92 400E 180K (SOLD)
94 E 420 150, blown gaskets (SOLD)
http://www.kanio.net/mercedes_signature.jpg

Whell tell that to the owners of Ferrari's or Rolls Royces. They should be really pissed since they paid well over what we paid for our Mercedes cars and have even more problems. You can't compare Japanese cars with their lawnmower engines with higher end cars as there is no comparison. Even the Lexus line of cars trails behind MB technology at least 2-5 years.

With a certain class of car there is a cost of ownership. If your not willing to pay your dues pick another class of cars.

Your "average" Ferrari has a $12,000 30K service for one of the cheaper models. Not to mention problems with overheating Catalyic converters and leaking hoses that you have to be vigilent with to keep your whole car from burning up. I am considering my first Ferrari and many of the owners suggest a laser thermometer in the glove box in case the "slow down" light comes because of an overheating Catalytic converter. Why do people still buy them? Because there is nothing on the road like them. The same thing is true with many of the Mercedes models.

If my memory serves me a timing belt job on a Ferrari Testarossa costs about $5k these days and needs to be done like every 5 years regardless of mileage. You need to lift the car off the engine, it's decent amount of work.

A timing belt on say a Honda Accord needs to be done every 100k miles now, anyone know what it costs to change? I'll wag $500. Most Honda owners will complain.

Do most Ferrari owners complain? The cheap ones do, most don't care. Its simply the what it costs to play. Rolls Royce are no better, if not worst, a good joke is if you buy a $20k Rolls throw in another $20k and you can drive it!

My motto is this, if you want to play with the big boys and own a Mercedes, Ferrari, P car, Jag, Royce whatever, you have to pay with them too.

One should not complain when there $80k S500 blows the evap core and needs $2k to correct. If its such a big deal to you then you probably shouldn't own any high end car, buy a Honda. Lifes to short to worry about crap like that.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Totally agree with everything you just said. Just an FYI. Timing belt and waterpump on most Honda's is about $300 or so at a dealership. At least that was the price when I was doing Japanese cars in College.

I don't know about the V12's as im not quite that brave on a first Ferrari but on the V8's the timing belt is taken care of during the 30K service. Every 30K miles the engine is removed from the car and every belt and hose is changed as well as a number of other parts. Depending on the engine that can run you about $12K. An Engine rebuild is $30-40K.

"Virtually every part on the 600 was built solely for this car, and in small (meaning hugely expensive) numbers....

It takes a true specialist, with first hand knowledge and experience, to service and repair or restore these machines. For example, the hydraulic system requires a lightweight special-purpose oil, Mercedes Benz part number 100 890 00 11. While this looks like typical ATF fluid, if ATF fluid is innocently dumped in the hydraulic reservoir--the system that powers the seats, windows, ventilation flaps, sunroof, trunk lid, shocks, and, on the early models, the door assists---you 've just committed a $30,000 faux pas. Typical rebuild costs are: brake system overhaul, $25,000, front or rear axle assemblies, $12,000 each plus $6,000 for the rest of the air
suspension system, driveshaft $7,000. Fully restoring a 600, if you begin with a complete, $20,000 "builder", will set you back at least $150,000.

Prices for the more common SWB 600 have been stable and predictable.
Most used up cars bought by an unsuspecting buyer, run $15,000-$25,000.
These almost certainly need $30,000 in mechanical repairs just to be reliable drivers; after that, you might be able to sell your $50,000 car for $30,000, a near dot-com special.

Obviously, if you must have a 600, you are better off spending at least $70,000 for a good car with 40,000-50,000 miles that has been maintained, with a thick folder full of documentation. Top condition 600 swb 600s will bring well over $100k from savvy buyers who are aware of what it takes to make one right.

If the car runs out okay, and the owner drives it for a year and then sells it without doing anything, he will probably get his money back and have had a good time. But if he comes out one morning and notices the car has adopted a kneeling position at one corner due to the collapse of the the air suspension, he should be aware the good times have ended and the fiscal future is bleak".

~~~Scott Featherman, German Car Profile, "Sports Car Market" 5/2003

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Yes Pullmans were not really designed for a mere mortal to own. Many of them had a chauffer and a mechanic that tended to the car's every need. A well taken care of Pullman makes a Rolls Royce seem like a primative leather and wood toy.

Parts are the biggest obstacle of course second only to the greed of those who are trained on how to work on them.

Considering how much they cost and who bought them, cost usualy wasn't an issue.

If its a Ferrari it needs to have a V12! Although the 355's are coming down in price nicely, one of those would do!

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

While the V12's are nice I am most interested in the Pinninfarina coachwork and fun driving. The V8's fit my needs the best.