92 400se M119 134,000 miles

Over the last few months, I’ve been noticing an intermittent clattering noise on warm start up. The noise only last for a few seconds. I originally thought this was a timing chain rattle. Since the problem is intermittent, needless to say it’s driving me crazy!

I did a search to discover other possible solutions.

I’ve changed the chain tensioner, upper rails, but the problem noise still persists. My chain stretch was only 3 degrees, so I didn’t change the timing chain. I did not replace the lower timing rails.

I also replaced the oil filter housing check valve.

Last month I replaced a failed belt tensioner.

I replaced one of the camshaft timing adjusters as someone else suggested, but only on the right camshaft - a year ago.

Someone else with a M119 engine had thought this might be engine bearings. Someone else thought this is might be lifters.

I normally run Mobil One 15-50 synthetic during the summer months, but after the replacement of the chain tensioner and rails last weekend I changed to my winter oil Mobil One 5-50 ..

Man… this car is killing me. It’s always something. I don’t mind working on the 400se, but if the "fix" to address the problems turns out to be replacing the bearings - I’m getting rid of this car.

Any help would GREATE be appreciated

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Russell McMahon
Tulsa, OK
2001 CLK 320
1992 400se
1993 400e
2000 320ML

Most common issue would be the oiling tubes between the exhaust lifters to the intake lifters. The end plug, be it metal or plastic tends to fall out. This usually leads to a dominant ticking noise heard on the top end but mainly when the engine is hot.

I might suspect the check valve that is inserted into the oil filter housing, it may not be seating properly. The check valve is designed to maintain residual oil pressure in the chain tensioner and the lifter oiling circuits. I believe MB modified the valve to correct an intermittent seating issue.

Good luck

I just had the valve covers off this past weekend when I was changing the upper guide rails and all the oiler tubes looked fine. I did check each one to make sure the oiler tube was seated well. My model has the medal oiler tubes. I don’t experience infamous “lifter ticking lifter” noise, just the noise you hear just after you change the oil on the 1st start of the engine. I also only hear the noise after a warm start and after the car has been setting for a period and the event creating the noise only randomly occurs.

I did replace the oil filter housing valve with the updated version two weeks ago when I changed the water pump. I’m wondering if the new “valve” is performing as it should. Before reinstalling the oil filter housing, I made sure the spring in the valve worked and the valve returned to closed position.

This one has me scratching my head.

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Russell McMahon
Tulsa, OK
2001 CLK 320
1992 400se
1993 400e
2000 320ML

Does anyone know if a lower timing rail hadfailded, would I get the intermittent noise that I'm describing above. Or, would the nose always occur without regard to factors such as the car setting, and starting when warm.

I'm thinking hard about pulling the lower oil slump pan this weekend to verify there are no timing rails parts floating around. Since I changed the oil this past weekend with Mobil 5w 50 at $5 per quart., I'm not wanting to wast any "liquid gold." Guess I could try and recapture the oil for reuse back into the engine.

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Russell McMahon
Tulsa, OK
2001 CLK 320
1992 400se
1993 400e
2000 320ML

I have a similar problem and sent you a PM. When you get the warm startup clattering noise - does the engine shake or run rough or miss or anything - or is it running smoothly. Also, you say the problem is on warm startup - is there no problem at all on cold startup? That would seem like an interesting clue.

Dean, thanks for the reply. I'm sorry, I didn't check my PM.

The car runs great.. and very smooth after startup and even after the short few seconds of clattering noise.

During the clatter, there is no ruff idle or engine shake. You can hardly tell the engine is running once started. My only observation would be it seems the engine takes longer to start, but I have been my impression from the time I purchased the car. It seem like the longer start times are more common for M119 engines form what I have read - but correct me if I'm mistaken..

Upon occasion the chatter has occurs during the morning starts, but it's more typical and pronounced after the engine has reached operating temp and sat for a few hours. If the car is stated within a few hours, the chatter never seems to happen. The "somewhat" random nature of the problem is puzzeling me.

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Russell McMahon
Tulsa, OK
2001 CLK 320
1992 400se
1993 400e
2000 320ML

I don't think you've got the same problem as I'm having. Mine is just purely a matter of how long the car sits. If it sits for a few days it starts very rough and somewhat noisy. Warmed up and sitting for a few hours I would never have the problem. I'm beginning to think I might have injectors leaking down - even though they were recently cleaned.

Your problem is so intermitent that I think I would try another oil check valve. There's a new style part and apparently even the new style sometimes doesn't seat just right. I've thought about doing this myself - only because it's fairly inexpensive.

I get ticking on my older 300D Turbo - a metallic pecking sound. Appears to be injector knock or trash on injector tip.

Bryan in NC

Dean… I'm thinking you are correct with your assessment of the oil filter housing check valve. It would make one suspect with the problem I’m describing. Even though I changed the oil filter valve this past weekend, I'm considering going to the dealer tomorrow and purchasing a new MB brand valve and change the part again. My “off” brand unit might not be keeping a good seal.

Does anyone know how I might check the current valve without removing the oil filter housing and replacing the part? Shouldn’t the oil filter housing keep oil in the unit without draining back into the engine when I remove the oil filter?

I'll also going to remove the oil slump pan and check for any timing guide remains.

Gosh… I’m getting good at removing parts from the front of the engine since I’m performing this job practically every weekend now! Geeze!

Dean...let me know if you need any tips on changing the oil filter housing!

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Russell McMahon
Tulsa, OK
2001 CLK 320
1992 400se
1993 400e
2000 320ML

Best advice I would be able to provide you with at this time might be to remove the lower oil pan and perform a thorough visual inspection. IMO, it would be time well spent! If you choose to remove the oil pan, look closely in the area of the crank gear/timing cover. Sometimes broken material from chain rails can become loosely trapped in this area without causing any major problem. If you do find debris then it’s conclusive, you will need to dismantle the front of the engine.

I don't want this to sound like I am questioning your work however did you change the three semi-curved rails in the cylinder heads (1 on right head, 2 on left head)? Did you replace the tensioning rail? How did/do the two rails between the cam gears look? Were the covers which clip on to the front of these rails damaged in any way (ie-broken retainer clip)?

Keep us posted.............

Russell, any update on your M119 problem?

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Dave
Boise, ID
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