Didn't you used to be my Drill Sgt Major ?

BTW....'Breaks' is spelled....BRAKES.




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[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ]

"A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

Ok, you got me on the "Brakes" yesterday wasn’t a good day.

First off, i would like to thank everyone for his or her feedback. It gave me the ammo i needed to put up a good case against them

Here's what happened, They informed me the steel "BRAKE" line (lol), had been " rubbing against a steel grommet that was attached to a power steering line" that was buried within the chassis i have no idea what this means but this is exactly, verbatim what they said. I asked for the damaged brake line and I have it the trunk. There is indeed a slight tear in the steel line on one corner. They gave me a 10% discount and ate the towing fee, $100. I paid $1100 plus the rental fee's $265. The service manger understood my argument but said he had he's hands tied and couldn’t to any better. They washed my car and I was off.
If anyone wants a copy of faxed copy of the bill PM me

Answers for some of the questions:
1. Has the vehicle in question EVER had any body work or after-market work performed in the area where the damage is? The front right fender was scratched and painted. Very minor.

2. Exactly where is the line damaged? If it's a line that runs from the front all the way to the rear, it may be partially inaccessible but that doesn't mean the damage was in this area. (BTW, don't expect any MB dealer to simply replace the damaged section of line using compression or flared fittings. It's a liability issue. ).
The line was buried in the chassis (SP); it was a steel pre-formed line with fittings on each end. They claim 13 hours of labor

Was the car always serviced at MB? Yes, they checked the history and verified. No one but a MB tech has serviced this car
-You can still downshift and use the emergency brake!
Yes you can, and that’s what I did to avoid the NYC sanation truck that was in my lane slowing down. I drove around him on a one way lane, thank god it was a straightaway and no one was in the other lane. The EM Brakes saved my A**!

If anyone wants to take a look at the bill PM me, i can Fax it over.

And thank you again, you all helped a great deal!

I've got a few ML's in the shop now, so I took a look underneath and here's what I found. The steel lines coming out of the hydraulic (located beneath the washer bottle) unit are routed down to the left side frame rail. They are quite close (approx.10mm) to the P/S hoses but if everything is installed correctly nothing rubs. If the line in question is for one of the rear wheel brakes, they run along the frame rail between the body mounts and body shell. In this area they're quite well protected. The line for the L/R simply connects to the rubber hose, while the line for the R/R connects to a union fitting located at the frame rail in the L/R wheel well. From the union fitting it simply crosses over to the R/R. Since the line is pre-formed it could be quite a job to replace. Several hours at a minimum. It would be a difficult driveway job even for the most determined DIYer. The big question as far as I'm concerned is how did the line come in contact with anything? Believe me, they don't just pop out of their brackets. I'm only guesing, but someone must have inadvertantly knocked it loose during a previous repair job. This may have taken place some time ago though. I'm sure it would take a while to rub through. It might be worthwhile to study the service history thoroughly. Try to find out if any previous work was done in that area.

ILUV ML - This peice of info might come in handy.

App 2 weeks ago i had the power steering pump replaced for the 2nd time in 8 weeks, by another dealer in Bayside queens. Along with the power steering pump they also had to change parts to the rach and pinion, they said they actually had to remove part of the suspension etc and replace hoses and such related to the rach--. I spoke to them and they said it had nothing to do with this. Yesterday at Manhatten Benz they said it may have. Knowing what you know should i call the dealership in queens and send the a fax of the repair bill.

If you want to look at it let me know

Im looking at the bill and here is what they fixed

part 163-420-16-26 $48.50
part 163-420-15-26 "" ""

DAMAGED BREAKE LINES FOR PRIMARY AND SECONDARY R&R FUSE BOX ASS. AND HOUSEING R&R ABS UNIT REPLACED LINES BLEED ALL OK 8.0

let me know if you need more info from the bill

Please tell me that wasnt Helms brothers that did that repair. They have an incompetent service department . I only go there to buy parts. Its well known around here that if you can make it to the Manhattan mercedes you'd be better off.

Good luck getting them to listen.

what I would do.

copy the repair orders you have and put them in chronological order.

write a cover letter explaining the circumstances. add a copy of this thread on this forum particularly ILUVMILS 3/3/05 post.

Make multiple copies of the whole sha-bang.

I would be sure to give one copy to the REGIONAL REP who visits the Manhattan dealership. I think the Manhattan dealership is probably very good, and the regional rep will probably get favorable feedback from them toward you.

Ethan - You read my mind, already in the process. And yes Helms did the work!

Let me tell you, i was lucky! It could have been my wife in the car in the tunnel. But it was me, i could care less for the $1300! But it felt like a slap in the face after nearly hurting myslef and someone else cause of someones sloppy work.

Mercedes obviously has some problems. Yesterday I went to our local MB dealer to get some rear axel fluid for my 560 SL. While I was in the parts department I asked my wife to check out a new C230. When I got back and she saw that I paid $60.00 for 2 lires of gear oil she said she will never buy a MB.

I have never even worked on an ML series Benz, but I have changed at least a dozen or so steel breake lines in my own and for various customers cars. The only ones that took me over an hour are those done on my back in my drive way without pre-formed lines. About 3 months ago I did exacly this job on my F-150. I replaced the line going from the rear axel to the mid section of the vehical. About 6 ft of line. This required removal of the line, custom bending a line to match the old line, flairing the ends, reinstalling and bleading. Now this is an easy truck to replace the line on and it took less than 2 hours on my back. But in 8 hours I could have also removed and replaced the engine. if that were required. I find 8 hours hard to belive in a professional automotive service facility for any car.

John Roncallo

I just sent a letter to the Queens dealership, Lets see what happens.

Hi John, I don't mean to start any trouble but believe me when I tell you that replacing the steel line(s) on an ML is no quickie. I took great interest in this thread since it involved a serious safety issue, so I made sure to look VERY closely at a number of ML's before I posted. Thanks for listening.

The Queens dealership just called. They state that none of the repair work to the Powersteering pump and hosed, and rach and pinion and assoc hoese (sp?) could have caused the rupture of the steel brake line.

Got to go up the ladder! Keep you posted

Hmmm. Very interesting. Filed a claim with MB USA at 1:30pm. I recieved a call from MB-NYC at 5:00pm, they would like the ruptured line back so the MB rep can inspect them so i can get an answer to the problem, and hopefully my money back. I must say they did react very quickly! And i will keep everyone posted as to the results!

If you are a Mercedes Benz service professional than I will take you word for It. But personally I would like to see what the labor time guide says. Unfortunatly I do not have access to ML's or a labor time guide. However I was a MB technician 16 years ago and I find 8 hour a bit much to swallow. In this industry I have also seen my share over charges, poor workmanship and outright incompetance. But yes I am speaking without evidence for the moment. And I am sorry if that upest you.

John Roncallo

NYC - MB made a very big deal about the amount of work it took to replace the steel line. An MB-USA rep will be inspecting the job preformed, and the brake line soon, so they would be very dum to skew the labor hours. But ya never know