Toyota Sienna Hybrid Roadtrip - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

martureo · #1 07-02-2024, 12:48 PM

Warning, this is detail/data heavy.

TL/DR: Yes, its worth it for a road trip but no I wouldn't own one.

Here's the background:

We had a family reunion in Oklahoma this summer and needed a way to get six people (two parents and four children) back and forth for the least amount of money. These were the options I came up with.

Flying ($2,600)
Train (Amtrak $1,400 one way, no return option)
Driving our van (odometer at 200k)
Driving rental van ($1,300-$2,000)

Flying was certainly the most expensive regardless of carrier, discounts, etc. And we'd have to get a rental van at the other end.

Amtrak seemed like a decent option until we figured that there was no return train for another six weeks.

While we like our 2010 Honda Odyssey, its starting to show its age at 200k and we didn't want to buy a new van on this trip. Best mpg I've seen on it is 22 mpg.

Renting a van seemed like the right option. Renting from the usual suspects (Enterprise, Hertz, Budget, etc) got me a few options. I checked Turo as well and found a few more vehicles. These are the vehicles I looked seriously at with their associated combined mpg ratings.

2023 Honda Odyssey (24 mpg)
2020 Mercedes Metris (20 mpg)
2022 Chrysler Pacifica (24 mpg)
2022 Toyota Sienna Hybrid (36 mpg)
2023 Toyota Sienna Hybrid (36 mpg)

Taking the mileage of the trip out and back at 2,600 miles (not counting driving around during the week to compare these options with flying and renting a van), using the listed mpg and estimating gas to be $4 per gallon I got the total cost for each option to be between $1,300-2,000.

The other option considered was emergency support. I could rent from someone on Turo, but what happens if something went wrong? The decision was made to rent a new Sienna directly from a local Toyota dealer for $129/day and unlimited mileage. If there was a problem we'd be able to find a Toyota dealer almost anywhere.

We took the Southern route through Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia, and Arkansas on the way out to Oklahoma because we were following one of my siblings. The Northern route seemed a bit shorter so we took that back through Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania.

On the way out I set the radar cruise control to 80 mph as was possible for each road. The way back I set it to 76 mph to see if I could eke out any more efficiency without sacrificing too much time.

Here's the raw data for the trip.

Starting mileage---13,761

Fillup_____Mileage___mpg_____Gallons
1------------14271----------34.38-----14.835
2------------14810----------33.29-----16.192
3------------15258----------31.58-----14.187
4------------15524----------32.57------8.167
5------------15965----------30.89-----14.277
6------------16425----------33.01-----13.937
7------------16887----------33.92-----13.622

Overall average: 32.80 mpg
Overall highway average (excluding mid week): 32.84 mpg
Total miles driven: 3,126

Total spent on fuel: $310.36
Rental cost: $1,159.51
Total cost: $1,469.87

So, would I do it again? Yes. The Sienna is a decent cruiser. I had no lack of power on the highway to pass or climb in the mountains. It has plenty of gadgets (about one thousand charging ports inside) and comfort features (cooled seats were a nice touch) and the cargo space was more than adequate for our needs. The radar adapted cruise control was a very nice feature which would allow us to pass semis with ease and included automatic braking for when someone pulled out in front of us. I would certainly rent this van again for a similar journey.

Some of the features we played with:

Radar adapted cruise control (with 3 following distance options)
Heads up Display (with current mph, speed limit and GPS instructions)
Air cooled front seats (both bottom and lower back vents)
Large GPS screen with guidance which would download from the cloud
Parking cameras on all four corners
EV mode (limited cruising and speed)
Charging and media ports all over (some USB A and some USB C)
Economy driving score calculator (gamifying your acceleration, use of cruise control and braking)
More cupholders than you should be able to have in a vehicle

Would I buy one? No. Too many features made this feel like I was flying a modern passenger jet. We weren't owners so there were features that we couldn't program our settings into, but we've found that many features would never be able to be customized and would go to a default as soon as the vehicle was switched off. There's plenty of features that we couldn't understand why they existed and made the experience overly complicated. One of these was the ability to split the GPS guidance and duplicate it on each half of the screen (which we jokingly referred to as the option for when the driver and passenger were going different places). It took us 15 minutes to figure out how to turn this feature off and we still aren't sure how we selected it.

The view out of the front is obscured by the large engine compartment shape and parking cameras are a necessity. The tailgate doesn't open as wide as you'd expect and both my wife and I hit our heads on it more than a few times. She's 5'5" and I'm 5'10", so this isn't a height issue.

The mileage was decently impressive for what we were driving, but it wasn't groundbreaking. I'd worry about the battery life and what it would cost to replace in ~7-10 years.

I think our next van will be another Honda Odyssey, probably used (just like the last two).

martureo · #2 07-02-2024, 12:58 PM

For context.

engatwork · #3 07-02-2024, 09:49 PM

Thanks for the review write up. I can't say I've read anything negative about that van.

Where is your sense of adventure not driving the vehicle with 200k miles? I just got back from a 2200 mile ride around in the GLK that turned over 300k during the trip.

martureo · #4 07-03-2024, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Thanks for the review write up. I can't say I've read anything negative about that van.

Where is your sense of adventure not driving the vehicle with 200k miles? I just got back from a 2200 mile ride around in the GLK that turned over 300k during the trip.

Our last Odysseyhad the transmission start slipping badly around 150k. This one needs struts, an A/C charge and we just got out back from the body shop a few months ago after I hit a deer. We'd like to keep this one a bit longer and a newer van just isn't in the budget anytime soon.

Do I think our Odyssey would make it? Yeah, probably. But this was an exercise in taking a low calculated risk and spending the least necessary amount of money.

And I don't think your journey included four children.

engatwork · #5 07-03-2024, 08:24 AM

LOL - Thankfully my trip did not involve 4 children.

jcyuhn · #6 07-03-2024, 10:01 AM

Thanks for taking the time to write up a detailed review. I have a 2018 Pacifica that is used for road trips and hauling around bicycles and friends. Surprisingly it has been perfectly reliable, after 6+ years my repair costs are $0.

I think you would have seen 28-29 MPG on your trip with a Pacifica or Odyssey. That’s what I typically get on 75MPH highway trips. These newer vans are much more efficient than your Odyssey, delivering about 5MPG better highway mileage. I had an ‘08 Odyssey Touring as well. It was troublesome though..

Surprised you didn’t have any negative remarks about power and refinement in the Sienna. Reviewers that are accustomed to the smooth V6 in he Odyssey or Pacifica typically complain about noise, lack of refinement, and poor acceleration in the Sienna, though the fool economy is better.

Anyways, glad it all worked out well.

martureo · #7 07-03-2024, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcyuhn

Thanks for taking the time to write up a detailed review. I have a 2018 Pacifica that is used for road trips and hauling around bicycles and friends. Surprisingly it has been perfectly reliable, after 6+ years my repair costs are $0.

I think you would have seen 28-29 MPG on your trip with a Pacifica or Odyssey. That’s what I typically get on 75MPH highway trips. These newer vans are much more efficient than your Odyssey, delivering about 5MPG better highway mileage. I had an ‘08 Odyssey Touring as well. It was troublesome though..

Surprised you didn’t have any negative remarks about power and refinement in the Sienna. Reviewers that are accustomed to the smooth V6 in he Odyssey or Pacifica typically complain about noise, lack of refinement, and poor acceleration in the Sienna, though the fool economy is better.

Anyways, glad it all worked out well.

Well, there's another data point that I didn't mention. I did mention that our Odyssey was in the body shop because of a deer collision, I didn't mention that for the four weeks that it was in the shop we had a 2022 Pacifica. We took a short vacation about five hours away while we had the van so I got a decent bit of driving with it.

The mileage on the Pacifica wasn't anything too special. From memory I was getting something around 25-26 mpg. I did like the acceleration but I wasn't crazy about the dozen or so gears that made it feel like I was constantly shifting. The second worst part of that van was the location of the tailgate button. Who puts a button on the inside of the C pillar? Everyone else puts the button on the tailgate itself. The worst part of the van, which is unforgiveable, isn't that there's a rotating gear selector knob. Its that the gear selector knob is right next to the volume control! What kind of idiot let that get through the design reviews?

I didn't find the Sienna too unrefined. Its a Toyota and is pretty similar to the other Toyotas that I've driven. If it were badged as a Lexus then I could see the issue.

savas · #8 07-03-2024, 02:15 PM

Interesting write up, thanks. I had a 2010 sienna 8 seater that we drove to just over 200k before selling. Other than it going through brakes rather quickly, we never had a problem with it. I felt it was pretty quick. If you were a bit too heavy on the gas off the line then it would spin the front wheels pretty easily. I would not describe it as refined! Mpg was not great either, regularly averaging around 19 with mixed driving.

jcyuhn · #9 07-04-2024, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Well, there's another data point that I didn't mention. I did mention that our Odyssey was in the body shop because of a deer collision, I didn't mention that for the four weeks that it was in the shop we had a 2022 Pacifica. We took a short vacation about five hours away while we had the van so I got a decent bit of driving with it.

The mileage on the Pacifica wasn't anything too special. From memory I was getting something around 25-26 mpg. I did like the acceleration but I wasn't crazy about the dozen or so gears that made it feel like I was constantly shifting. The second worst part of that van was the location of the tailgate button. Who puts a button on the inside of the C pillar? Everyone else puts the button on the tailgate itself. The worst part of the van, which is unforgiveable, isn't that there's a rotating gear selector knob. Its that the gear selector knob is right next to the volume control! What kind of idiot let that get through the design reviews?

I didn't find the Sienna too unrefined. Its a Toyota and is pretty similar to the other Toyotas that I've driven. If it were badged as a Lexus then I could see the issue.

I think you’ll find all modern cars with 8/9/10 speed transmissions to be a bit shifty. It’s the current state of the world. I’ve never had any issues with your ergonomic concerns, FWIW.

Mxfrank · #10 07-05-2024, 10:44 AM

So I've always had a boxy car for hauling stuff. At one time it was a 300TDT, more recently an Outback. In December, I traded the Outback on a Rav4 Hybrid, which has pretty much the same running gear as your rental van. Mileage is extraordinary...when it was out of the box, it was getting 38-42. But now, fully broken in, 50-55. And it's reasonably quick: the gas engine and two electric motors can push the car to 60 in 6.5 seconds. It's been an unremarkable ownership experience, only back to the dealer for the free oil changes. The electronics is a bit overwhelming. Things I like: automatic braking, adaptive cruise control, heated steering wheel, automatic wipers and lights. Things I'm not all that happy with: lane departure assist: it not only warns you, it "jiggles" the steering wheel to get your attention. So if a kid runs out into the street and you react, it tries to nudge you back on track. I find the infotainment system to be ridiculously complex (every time you start the car, it warns you not to fiddle with the radio while driving). But engine, drivetrain and battery systems are exceptional.

Skid Row Joe · #11 07-05-2024, 03:21 PM

To me, to get the most out of any vehicle, money wise, you keep replacing parts or components to get the most out of the vehicle. IF, it's serviceable, and, you're ON a limited budget, that returns the most for your dollar. All things being equal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Warning, this is detail/data heavy.

TL/DR: Yes, its worth it for a road trip but no I wouldn't own one.

Here's the background:

We had a family reunion in Oklahoma this summer and needed a way to get six people (two parents and four children) back and forth for the least amount of money. These were the options I came up with.

Flying ($2,600)
Train (Amtrak $1,400 one way, no return option)
Driving our van (odometer at 200k)
Driving rental van ($1,300-$2,000)

Flying was certainly the most expensive regardless of carrier, discounts, etc. And we'd have to get a rental van at the other end.

Amtrak seemed like a decent option until we figured that there was no return train for another six weeks.

While we like our 2010 Honda Odyssey, its starting to show its age at 200k and we didn't want to buy a new van on this trip. Best mpg I've seen on it is 22 mpg.

Renting a van seemed like the right option. Renting from the usual suspects (Enterprise, Hertz, Budget, etc) got me a few options. I checked Turo as well and found a few more vehicles. These are the vehicles I looked seriously at with their associated combined mpg ratings.

2023 Honda Odyssey (24 mpg)
2020 Mercedes Metris (20 mpg)
2022 Chrysler Pacifica (24 mpg)
2022 Toyota Sienna Hybrid (36 mpg)
2023 Toyota Sienna Hybrid (36 mpg)

Taking the mileage of the trip out and back at 2,600 miles (not counting driving around during the week to compare these options with flying and renting a van), using the listed mpg and estimating gas to be $4 per gallon I got the total cost for each option to be between $1,300-2,000.

The other option considered was emergency support. I could rent from someone on Turo, but what happens if something went wrong? The decision was made to rent a new Sienna directly from a local Toyota dealer for $129/day and unlimited mileage. If there was a problem we'd be able to find a Toyota dealer almost anywhere.

We took the Southern route through Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia, and Arkansas on the way out to Oklahoma because we were following one of my siblings. The Northern route seemed a bit shorter so we took that back through Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania.

On the way out I set the radar cruise control to 80 mph as was possible for each road. The way back I set it to 76 mph to see if I could eke out any more efficiency without sacrificing too much time.

Here's the raw data for the trip.

Starting mileage---13,761

Fillup_____Mileage___mpg_____Gallons
1------------14271----------34.38-----14.835
2------------14810----------33.29-----16.192
3------------15258----------31.58-----14.187
4------------15524----------32.57------8.167
5------------15965----------30.89-----14.277
6------------16425----------33.01-----13.937
7------------16887----------33.92-----13.622

Overall average: 32.80 mpg
Overall highway average (excluding mid week): 32.84 mpg
Total miles driven: 3,126

Total spent on fuel: $310.36
Rental cost: $1,159.51
Total cost: $1,469.87

So, would I do it again? Yes. The Sienna is a decent cruiser. I had no lack of power on the highway to pass or climb in the mountains. It has plenty of gadgets (about one thousand charging ports inside) and comfort features (cooled seats were a nice touch) and the cargo space was more than adequate for our needs. The radar adapted cruise control was a very nice feature which would allow us to pass semis with ease and included automatic braking for when someone pulled out in front of us. I would certainly rent this van again for a similar journey.

Some of the features we played with:

Radar adapted cruise control (with 3 following distance options)
Heads up Display (with current mph, speed limit and GPS instructions)
Air cooled front seats (both bottom and lower back vents)
Large GPS screen with guidance which would download from the cloud
Parking cameras on all four corners
EV mode (limited cruising and speed)
Charging and media ports all over (some USB A and some USB C)
Economy driving score calculator (gamifying your acceleration, use of cruise control and braking)
More cupholders than you should be able to have in a vehicle

Would I buy one? No. Too many features made this feel like I was flying a modern passenger jet. We weren't owners so there were features that we couldn't program our settings into, but we've found that many features would never be able to be customized and would go to a default as soon as the vehicle was switched off. There's plenty of features that we couldn't understand why they existed and made the experience overly complicated. One of these was the ability to split the GPS guidance and duplicate it on each half of the screen (which we jokingly referred to as the option for when the driver and passenger were going different places). It took us 15 minutes to figure out how to turn this feature off and we still aren't sure how we selected it.

The view out of the front is obscured by the large engine compartment shape and parking cameras are a necessity. The tailgate doesn't open as wide as you'd expect and both my wife and I hit our heads on it more than a few times. She's 5'5" and I'm 5'10", so this isn't a height issue.

The mileage was decently impressive for what we were driving, but it wasn't groundbreaking. I'd worry about the battery life and what it would cost to replace in ~7-10 years.

I think our next van will be another Honda Odyssey, probably used (just like the last two).

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Our last Odysseyhad the transmission start slipping badly around 150k. This one needs struts, an A/C charge and we just got out back from the body shop a few months ago after I hit a deer. We'd like to keep this one a bit longer and a newer van just isn't in the budget anytime soon.

Do I think our Odyssey would make it? Yeah, probably. But this was an exercise in taking a low calculated risk and spending the least necessary amount of money.

And I don't think your journey included four children.