Logging with horses and mules - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #1 08-31-2015, 03:57 PM

Suddenly my tiny yearning to harvest timber using draft horses and mules has sprung to life again. It's more possible to selectively log with horses than with skidders. Requires less road building. Not that I've done it.

I have a friends in Eastern WA who have used Belgians and other large equines to log for about 25 years. The last time I saw one of them, mid 90s, he had a pair of Clydesdale mules. First and probably only time I've seen draft mules in the flesh.

Found this pic of two Suffolk mules on either side of two Suffolk horses:

Formal name, Suffolk Punch, this English breed almost disappeared in the mid 20th century, is now being revived. Here's a Suffolk stallion:

THE USE OF DRAFT ANIMALS TO SKID LOGS:
A FACT SHEET

Quote:

Logging with draft animals is practical, efficient, and environmentally-sound, used on about 75% of all logging jobs in Appalachia.

A horse weighs about 1,600 pounds; a rubber-tired skidder weighs about 10,000 pounds.

A horse can be maintained for 1 year for less than it costs to buy one skidder tire.

A trained logging horse costs $1,500-$2,000 and can work for 15-20 years.

A logger and a team of horses can be hired for skidding timber for $125-$175 per day.

Horses and mules can do about the same amount of work.

Horses and mules eat about the same amount of food: 3-4 gallons (equivalent to $5-8) of feed per day.

Mules are more tolerant of hot weather than horses.

A single horse may be used to skid low-density trees like red cedar; a team of horses is needed to skid high-density trees like oak.

Horses can skid logs up or down slopes.

The maximum practical skidding distance for horses is about 1/4 mile (about 1500 feet).

A team of horses can pull a load of about 150-200 board-feet; this is equivalent to a green weight of about 1,500 pounds; to a white oak log 20-inches DBH and 24 feet long; or to two white oak logs 15-inches DBH and 32 feet long.

A team of horses can skid about 1,800 board-feet (120 logs) of red cedar per day; a pair of horses can skid about 3,000 board-feet of hardwoods per day.

Life expectancies of oxen, horses and mules, respectively, are 10, 20, and 35 years.

Typically, four animals are brought to a logging site and are rotated to give them breaks from working.

Start-up costs (1996) for horse-logging are about less than $10,000; start-up costs for conventional logging are greater than $100,000.

t walgamuth · #2 08-31-2015, 07:48 PM

Cool! I love Mules. My BIL in ARkansas was raising large mules for riding to sell. At the time he took on the project a good riding mule was selling for $5k or so. then the government decided folks could not sell horses that were going to be eaten and suddenly there were thousands of horses here that nobody wanted. it ruined the market for any horses (according to him). When he was up and running he had a Belgian mare and male asses from the little burro size up to very tall jacks. He also had some appaloosa horses. He was also trying to breed appaloosa mules.

He used to go to Arizona in the winter and hunt cougars. They used mules to climb around after cougars. They are very sure footed and don't bolt when you shoot.

So all the horses and asses are gone now except maybe a riding horse or two and he's too old to hunt "lions" as he calls them.

kerry · #3 08-31-2015, 10:42 PM

Hiking in RMNP last week. Rangers were using horses and mules for trail and bridge building. Useful animals.

cmac2012 · #4 09-01-2015, 01:38 AM

I've wanted to be around horses for as long as I can remember. Never owned one, haven't ridden that much, but what I did was pretty good. I stayed one winter with a friend near Havillah, WA - they leased 40 acres and a house in the midst of cattle ranch. He had 5 horses, we did maybe 10 rides on days when driving was too hazardous or just as a cheaper way to get around. One ride of about 12 miles saved a 35 mile drive. He's a big guy, his horse, which I rode once, was 3/4 thoroughbred and 1/4 Belgian. Big, smooth horse.

Long story short, owning horses rarely pays, it's sort of an expensive luxury for most people. My mother just married an Oregon rancher - timber and beef - south of Eugene and I mentioned I'd known a guy with two Clydesdale mules that he used for skidding logs. He opined that logging is awfully hard on land, and he's made a small fortune doing just that. He's a sweet guy, I'm really glad my mom hooked up with him. He knew my dad and she worked with his wife at her bookstore. They've known each other for 35 years.

Might be some adventure ahead on that score. Probably a long shot but who knows, it is more and more of a thing.

Once on a very lightly traveled road - late 80s - near Chesaw, WA, about 5 miles from Canada, I saw a nifty old barn and got out to look at it. Had to wind my way through a barbed wire fence. I got a good looksee then as I'm walking back, suddenly there are about 10 Belgians all around me. Perhaps hoping for an apple, who knows, wish I'd had some but they did let me pet them. Very docile and magnificent critters. Found out later they were the Clydesdale mule guy's herd. It would be work I'm sure but I want to do it.

Stretch · #5 09-01-2015, 03:32 AM

It is a really good idea to use horses / mules on land that isn't suited to machinery but it is a slow way to make money these days...

...still as a hobby or part of a "green solution" I reckon you can hardly go wrong (until you realise just how skilled the operators need to be - animals are really not a "twist and go" solution like machines)

cmac2012 · #6 09-01-2015, 04:00 AM

I'm sure it would take some learning. There are places that offer training, or perhaps more like a couple of introductory classes.

Some good footage here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tjkcp1Pmd4

elchivito · #7 09-01-2015, 09:07 AM

Sounds like a plan, all you're short is trees and horses. I raise horses, but mine aren't draft breeds; cattle and jumpers. From your list of facts above, it's laughable that a trained draft animal can be had for 2K dollars. Double at least and maybe triple that. Find someone who's logging with draft animals and go to work for them.

Simpler=Better · #8 09-01-2015, 10:25 AM

One of my neighbors has a set of mules he uses for farmwork. They seem pretty easygoing ocmpared to horses, they got out the other day and wound up in my backyard. I guess they wanted to help trim the grass

Brush clearing goats, that's where the money is. Get 20 or so boar goats, some electric fence, water tank, and a hut for them to sleep in.

Setup your fence/shelter/water tank and let them chow down. They even eat poison ivy

cmac2012 · #9 09-01-2015, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Sounds like a plan, all you're short is trees and horses. I raise horses, but mine aren't draft breeds; cattle and jumpers. From your list of facts above, it's laughable that a trained draft animal can be had for 2K dollars. Double at least and maybe triple that. Find someone who's logging with draft animals and go to work for them.

Yeah, I researched it some and that price is pretty low. It is an ambitious notion on my part. Yet another venture that I should have set out on 20 years ago.

TwitchKitty · #10 09-01-2015, 02:10 PM

Accidents with horses, etc. was a leading cause of death back in the "good old days". Be careful and if an animal acts like it would like to kill you then take no chances.

I got a donkey, donks are cool.

You can ride a cow.

cmac2012 · #11 09-01-2015, 02:18 PM

In my recent study on this I'm finding much praise for riding mammoth donkeys, oddly enough, the classification of the largest donkeys. Mules receive much praise online as well. Sounds like some of the best riding one could have would be a mammoth jack crossed with Peruvian Paso mare.

I have no doubt one could get hurt working with horses on this stuff. The vid I posted above hints at what could happen. OTOH, I'm wondering if clear-cutting will be less and less viable in days ahead. I've read of 3rd clear cuts not growing back well. The thinning thing sounds more viable.

panZZer · #12 09-01-2015, 06:07 PM

I don't know about them,
ide like to have a dog again but -its a lot of responsibility to take on.
ide rather drag logs out with one of these. that's only if I were inclined to cut some trees down. No way I would do it so I could play old timer logger.

only if I needed to clear out for fire prevention~ or if there was too many damn cottonwood trees--those nasty damn things got it coming, and also can suck up 125 gallons a day.

cmac2012 · #13 09-02-2015, 02:33 AM

Trucks would still be used. The horses are only used to drag logs through forest. In the standard industrial logging as we know it, skidders of some sort drag logs. Somehow, either way the log gets from its stump to a truck.

Word is that horses are much lighter than the equipment currently used. Not the same sort of abuse of soil and roots.

Some good reading here:

https://www.treefarmsystem.org/bulletin-bring-some-horsepower-to-your-logging

I'm not looking to "play" logger. I buy lumber all the time. Someone harvested that. My greenie BiL (the other one is a tea partier) believes that healthy forestry and logging (and replanting) sequesters carbon. Good enough. I might be able to make some money in this.

I think draft mules have a future in logging. Horses too, but mules deal with heat better.

Stretch · #14 09-02-2015, 02:53 AM

Oh yeah to get machines in there you need to cause some serious devastation!

If you use horses to pull out the trees / logs you can be selective in your cutting - you don't have to go for the carpet bombing approach to tree clearing.

I think it is a really nice way of managing a forest but I can see how it just doesn't fit in with (what people call) economics.

Simpler=Better · #15 09-02-2015, 02:03 PM

That reminds me, we used to leave the tractor on the trail, and run out the 75' PTO winch+ chains to the trees, then winch it back to the tractor. You don't know luxury until you've got a 100hp winch to do your bidding