Oh hi Skid, are we in a recession yet? Hows the RV? The cat?

I was affected by the economy and poor management before the car companies went begging.

That depends. Certainly they are more reliable than internet forum posters who post vague one liners.

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1984 300TD

Do you think these problems began last week?

Nice one liner tank.

"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" - by Micheline Maynard

An in-depth, hard-hitting account of the mistakes, miscalculations and myopia that have doomed America’s automobile industry.

In the 1990s, Detroit’s Big Three automobile companies were riding high. The introduction of the minivan and the SUV had revitalized the industry, and it was widely believed that Detroit had miraculously overcome the threat of foreign imports and regained its ascendant position. As Micheline Maynard makes brilliantly clear in THE END OF DETROIT, however, the traditional American car industry was, in fact, headed for disaster. Maynard argues that by focusing on high-profit trucks and SUVs, the Big Three missed a golden opportunity to win back the American car-buyer. Foreign companies like Toyota and Honda solidified their dominance in family and economy cars, gained market share in high-margin luxury cars, and, in an ironic twist, soon stormed in with their own sophisticatedly engineered and marketed SUVs, pickups and minivans. Detroit, suffering from a “good enough” syndrome and wedded to ineffective marketing gimmicks like rebates and zero-percent financing, failed to give consumers what they really wanted—reliability, the latest technology and good design at a reasonable cost. Drawing on a wide range of interviews with industry leaders, including Toyota’s Fujio Cho, Nissan’s Carlos Ghosn, Chrysler’s Dieter Zetsche, BMW’s Helmut Panke, and GM’s Robert Lutz, as well as car designers, engineers, test drivers and owners, Maynard presents a stark picture of the culture of arrogance and insularity that led American car manufacturers astray. Maynard predicts that, by the end of the decade, one of the American car makers will no longer exist in its present form.

The end is near for Detroit, very near.

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'06 E320 CDI
'17 Corvette Stingray Vert

It will also be the end of the stock you imagine you have.

"Average total compensation for a Big Three autoworker is $73.21 an hour
Toyota, Honda and Nissan pay a still-generous $44.20 an hour in total
compensation -- a cost edge of nearly 40%"

Credit this idea to Robert Reich, the former Clinton administration official. We’ve had lots of disagreements with Reich in the past, and no doubt will in the future. But on this he’s right: If a bailout is to be given, the Big Three and their unions must thoroughly revamp their businesses, almost as if it were a bankruptcy. Call it a Chapter 11 Bailout.

Above all, the companies’ poisonous contracts with the United Auto Workers union have to be torn up. The problem is that the UAW, under President Ron Gettelfinger, remains adamant: No givebacks. This is financial lunacy.

Thanks in part to managerial incompetence, but mostly due to pricey union contracts, it costs American carmakers too much to build cars here; they can’t compete. When you fold in health care, pensions, hourly pay, vacations and the rest, average total compensation for a Big Three autoworker is $73.21 an hour, according to data cited by University of Michigan economist Mark Perry.

Toyota, Honda and Nissan pay a still-generous $44.20 an hour in total compensation — a cost edge of nearly 40%. Is it any wonder that Ford, GM and Chrysler can’t compete? Or that, after paying their workers, they never have enough cash left to retool?

Today the total market capitalization of the Big Three has fallen to about $7 billion. Is it better for the owners of those companies to suffer a total loss or for taxpayers to lose $25 billion? The answer is obvious. As such, the only case for a bailout is if it would force major changes on the industry. That won’t happen with current management in place or with giveaway union contracts that make the companies unviable.

I don't have a dog in this fight, since I'll never own anything made in Detroit, unless Lexus or Mercedes-Benz accidentally opens an assembly plant there. Which is highly unlikely.

Detroit might as well do outsourcing-assembly for the foreign auto and truck makers, while they have a shot at salvaging something besides endless welfare dollar installments from the American people that actually pay taxes. Since roughly 66% of the American people polled, are against any form of Detroit bailout, they might as well start making appointments with the circuit court bankruptcy judges, and file.

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'06 E320 CDI
'17 Corvette Stingray Vert

Hah.


I can even get my shoes shined at Fletcher Jones Mercedes Benz in Newport Beach, before I drive up Jamboree for a shopping spree at Fashion Island.


Heeeeeeeee

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

You shouldn't cut and paste while pretending its your own.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=311818292128101

I said I was affected before the Big 3 went to Congress. They went to Congress about 3 weeks ago.



Thanks. It seemed more appropriate than a long, drawn out, thoughtful response.

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1984 300TD

How much have the CAFE and pollution stds affected price?

OTOH, I assume foreign mfrs have to meet the same stds.

B

I don't think the problem is CAFE and pollution since as you say, they have to meet the same standards whether it is Detroit or Japan.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

There's the price & then there's the price differential. Nice to know what the price is.

B

It's also a global puzzle, it depends on how much market share a company has country by country, Tata may flourish in other countries but can't step foot in the US market. I'm not sure what percentage of sales Toyota has in the US versus the world market or GM, but anyone including Toyota with a large stake in the US market is getting creamed right now.

An argument for enforced reciprocal trade policy with Japan.

Why?

The ones who are hurt by Japan's restrictive trade policies are Japanese consumers. They pay some of if not the highest prices in the world for goods produced outside of Japan, and they're the ones up in arms.

I definitely don't want to restrict imports of Japanese goods into the US. I like Japanese products at market prices without artificially (government-imposed) scarcity.