Any Woodworkers? Screws for solid Maple? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

waybomb · #1 05-16-2006, 08:21 PM

My son has built a very nice maple china hutch over the last two years of high school woodshop for my wife. It is about 70" wide and 84" tall. But he is having a problem attaching the Lamborghini-of-woodworking Euro Hinges to the solid 3/4" maple sides. He keeps breaking the screws.

What size screws should he use? Type?
What size pilot hole should be drilled? Is there a guide to pilot hole size vs. type of wood, similar to metal tapping guides?

Any other ideas would be helpfull. His teacher has no clue.

450slcguy · #2 05-16-2006, 09:57 PM

Battling Stubborn Screws?

Before screwing into hardwood you should always pre-drill a "pilot hole". A pilot hole should generally be about ½+ the diameter of the screw in hard woods and ¼ in softer woods.

Sometimes even with a good pilot hole, a stubborn screw will refuse to go any further. To solve this simply rub a little moist bar soap or paraffin wax on the threads to act as a lubricant. This is especially useful with soft metal screws such as brass and aluminum.

Ps... if your using brass screws for the hinge, first use a steel screw of the same size and thread pitch. That way the harder screw head will not strip as easily under the torque required to set the screw. Once the steel screw is set, remove it and repalce it with the brass one.

Also, Dont use cheap screwdrivers, they lack the tip strength to get a good bite on the screw head.

waybomb · #3 05-16-2006, 11:23 PM

I'll have Kev try the soap trick. You sparked an old memory of somebody telling me that trick many years ago. I bet it works.

t walgamuth · #4 05-17-2006, 12:01 AM

and experiment with some scrap wood. maple is tricky cause it is so hard. some pilot holes for wood are actually two staged. with a bigger hole toward the top of the smooth shanked wood screw. you can buy pilot drills for about any size wood screw. the two staged thing is very necessary with maple. small where the threads go so they have something to bite, and big where the smooth upper part of the wood screw is so that the resistance wont break off the screw. brass is triple tricky cause it is so soft.

experiment. precision will be rewarded. so will imprecision with broken screws or screws that come out later.

good luck

tom w

cmac2012 · #5 05-17-2006, 03:52 PM

Jeez, I was all primed to display my woodworking prowess, but these two fellows about covered everything. On brass screws, I generally drill the pilot hole bigger than the shank, usually the bit just one size below the outside diameter of the threads themself. I hate breaking a small brass screw in a hinge attachment. Frequently, you have to dig them out and pack the hole with bondo, sand it flat, and try again.

Using a steel screw for a pilot is a great idea -- it's amazing how often it can be hard to find a steel screw with the same pitch as the brass screw, though. You wouldn't think it would be a problem, but about half the time, the pitch is slightly different. It doesn't seem to be as tightly specified as machine screws, where the size and pitch have to match a nut.

GottaDiesel · #6 05-17-2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Jeez, I was all primed to display my woodworking prowess, but these two fellows about covered everything. On brass screws, I generally drill the pilot hole bigger than the shank, usually the bit just one size below the outside diameter of the threads themself. I hate breaking a small brass screw in a hinge attachment. Frequently, you have to dig them out and pack the hole with bondo, sand it flat, and try again.

Using a steel screw for a pilot is a great idea -- it's amazing how often it can be hard to find a steel screw with the same pitch as the brass screw, though. You wouldn't think it would be a problem, but about half the time, the pitch is slightly different. It doesn't seem to be as tightly specified as machine screws, where the size and pitch have to match a nut.

Same here. Hehe. Got in on this thread late.

With Maple. Be sure and keep things very straight and level when you screw/drill.

The soap idea is a good one. Also, depending on the head of the screw you may want to make the top of the hole slightly larger. (Sorry if already said.) TRUST ME when I tell you that maple will not "give" at all to allow the head to sink into the wood. All you'll do is break the screw... again.

Good Luck,

Pete

t walgamuth · #7 05-17-2006, 11:18 PM

yep

tom w

waybomb · #8 05-18-2006, 12:02 AM

Thanks everybody. I'll let you know how this worked out. Some great ideas!

Padraig · #9 05-18-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Battling Stubborn Screws?

Before screwing into hardwood you should always pre-drill a "pilot hole". A pilot hole should generally be about ½+ the diameter of the screw in hard woods and ¼ in softer woods.

Sometimes even with a good pilot hole, a stubborn screw will refuse to go any further. To solve this simply rub a little moist bar soap or paraffin wax on the threads to act as a lubricant. This is especially useful with soft metal screws such as brass and aluminum.

Ps... if your using brass screws for the hinge, first use a steel screw of the same size and thread pitch. That way the harder screw head will not strip as easily under the torque required to set the screw. Once the steel screw is set, remove it and repalce it with the brass one.

Also, Dont use cheap screwdrivers, they lack the tip strength to get a good bite on the screw head.

Good advice - but use a Robertson Head wood screw, not a Phillips or slotted types.

Lebenz · #10 05-18-2006, 11:53 AM

While on the general topic, how close to the edge of a 2x2 or 2x4 can one drive a nail without pre-drilling and not split the wood?

cmac2012 · #11 05-18-2006, 03:00 PM

I'd say no closer than 1/2 inch to the edge and even then I might predrill -- especially if there is a larger piece behind that will grip the nail. 2x2s can split when you don't expect it -- doesn't hurt to pre-drill with a bit about 1/32 smaller than the nail.

t walgamuth · #12 05-20-2006, 12:09 PM

angle your nail so that you get as much wood on both sides of the joint as possible. .5" straight in will split as soon as loaded i think.

tom w

waybomb · #13 05-20-2006, 10:45 PM

In went to the store today and bought some screws. Had a piece of Maple that my son had left over. Tried the "normal" size pilot and got the screw stuck. I had to go up two fraction sizes to get a good bite that worked well. So, I am having him bring the oversize bit to school on Monday, as well as a normal size bit for the doors, so he can finish the cabinet.
Thanks for all you help!

cmac2012 · #14 05-21-2006, 02:51 AM

I've been thinking that someone could market packages of brass screws with a couple of steel screws with the same exact thread for "tapping" the wooden hole. Manufacturers that used such packages would generate better customer loyalty, methinks.

Especially in the older looking stuff, when they give you slotted head brass screws. Any difficulty getting it in and you bung up the head of the screw. Looks like hell. Pre tapping would yield much more consistant results.

t walgamuth · #15 05-21-2006, 10:38 AM

good idea.

tom w