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#16
09-23-2002, 06:34 PM
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OK, I dug up the "Mercedes Service" AMG wheel install document. (I FINALLY got Acrobat to cooperate, by downgrading to Acrobat 4.0 instead of 5.0... long story.) Anyway, this is the document which details what to do to your car to *properly* install 17x8.0 ET28 wheels. Note that it calls for installing front & rear fender spacers, a strut travel limiter, internal wheel well mods, and then rolling both front AND rear fender lips significantly. Lots of pretty diagrams too:
http://www.meimann.com/docs/mercedes/AMG_wheel_install_01.pdf If you look at the other AMG docs in the directory above, you'll notice one of them shows "B6...." part numbers instead of H-WA124..." part numbers for the spacers & limiter. You need to order the B6- number from your dealer, the H-WA stuff doesn't show up. The spacer kit is ~$20 and the limiter is ~$50. I have the spacer kit on my car but not the limiter (yet). After installing I discovered I didn't need the spacer kit, but could use the limiter. The limiter may not be required if you have 500E struts (not sure about that.) Back to the myriad of spring/damper/swaybar combos Neil has mentioned (which make my head spin!), after you pick the springs & dampers, you may want to go with what I call "Sportline Plus" sway bars, which are larger than the regular Sportline bars used on the Sportline 300E in the early 90's. The bigger set would be the 124 LWB (limo) front bar with a 500E rear bar. Specs, part numbers, diameters, and current prices are in this PDF document: http://www.meimann.com/docs/mercedes/MB_124_swaybars.pdf Happy reading... 
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#17
09-23-2002, 07:03 PM
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nose down
Quote:
Neil- have you ever had the Sportline front springs in at the same time as the Bilstein Sports for comparison against the Sportline struts??
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#18
10-05-2002, 03:43 PM
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Hi Dave:
On the engine weight question...according to an August 1987 Road & Track article on the Hammer, your engine weighs about 100lbs more than the stock six. Cheers,
__________________
Dean Albrecht "Lead, follow, or better yet, get out of the way!"E500 owners motto
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#19
10-11-2002, 02:11 AM
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Ok. I've come full circle here and settled on the 500E setup, springs front and rear using the 92 500E front struts. Neil is correct about the Airdam being just too low for everyday practicality with a lowered setup.
Will be trying to get the SLS set up and working next week. Some old posts have indicated that the SLS differs between the Wagon and the 500- if the Hydropneumatic struts need replacement I assume the stock SLS TE setup is the way to go- is there a difference in performance between the two SLS systems or is it simply a function of mounting points? Thanks gsxr for the AMG doc. I will try first without the travel limiting washer on the spring and see if the 500 strut performs the same function. As for the fender spacers I think this was intended as a cosmetic improvement since the 17x8 ET28 wheels will protrude a bit farther than the stock bodywork. From appearances of the fender I would say AMG already added the spacers to the wagon.
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#20
10-21-2002, 01:38 PM
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Help! Why won't the 500E springs fit?
The 500E struts and springs don't seem like a direct fit for the front of the wagon. They are both a good 3 inches shorter than the stock springs. The tech says his system shows different mounting points (upper?) in the 500E.
What am I missing? Haven't many swapped 500 springs into another 124?
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#21
10-21-2002, 02:33 PM
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Dave- the 500E and 300TE wagon have the same mounting points. Unless AMG modified your wagon, I can't why they don't fit.
I think you should visit your shop and have your AMG wagon on a lift as well as another W124 car (all springs fit from one W124 model to another- note, I didn't say they are all interchangeable) :-) neil
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#22
10-24-2002, 01:11 AM
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The 500E springs and struts being 3 inches shorter sounds normal to me. That just limits suspension (extension) travel, which you want for a lowered car anyway. I think the tech is just looking at the length differences and raising a red flag, not saying they *physically* won't swap. A lot of techs like repairing cars with the same parts that came out, not upgrading or swapping parts from a different car with the intent of improving it! That way it's not their fault when you don't like the new/different parts they installed.
 I bet they will drop in just fine. But I've been wrong before, so keep us posted...Regards,
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#23
10-24-2002, 02:27 PM
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500E control arms
Thanks Neil and Dave for the responses.
This continues to be a great learning experience. While doing the front end I am going to do the front control arms and bushings. Since I like to have a fully engineered setup if possible I was wondering if the 500E had unique control arms and/or control arm bushings in the front, and if so would they bolt in to a stock 124? I don't like to mix and match, so I don't think sportline control arm bushings would be a good match for the 500E front springs/ struts. As I posted earlier I did consider the entire front Sportline setup on the wagon, but I liked the thought of a package that was engineered for a heavier (100lb+?) front end. I don't really know how the Sportline setup takes to a heavier front end; if anything it might sit even lower than the same setup on a 6cyl 124. I did see some reference to a (Europe only?) 400E Sportline. If so I wonder if the Sportline springs/ struts were the same in that car? I also noted in a writeup on the first Hammer Wagon (Automobile January 1988), "the wagon's front springs and shocks were retuned for the added weight"
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#24
10-24-2002, 03:02 PM
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The 500E uses regular W124 front control-arms and R129 knuckles and specific steering links, which will widen the track, and you will need to modify or go to 500E fenders, which will NOT look in proportion to the rear fenders, which will then need to be modified as well.
If you want a REAL sporty ride, go SportLine bushings in the control-arms, and SportLine springs and struts. If want a relaxed yet firm when pushed ride/suspension, then go 500E bushings, springs, and struts. :-) neil 1988 360TE AMG (with 500E springs & struts; SportLine swaybar) 1993 500E (with SportLine struts, and 500E springs)
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#25
10-25-2002, 02:37 PM
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strut height sportline vs 500E
I have both the sportline and 500E struts here and I noticed the significant difference in height. The Sportline and 500E springs on the otherhand have only 1/2 - 1 inch difference, the Sportlines being a drop taller.
Neil, I see you've covered this before: 500E vs. SportLine Struts/dampers Theoretically (technically ignorant theorist that I am) mounting the 500E strut would necessitate a 2 inch or so greater upward angle of the front control arm. Neil, how do you find the Sportline struts with the 500E springs? They must have different rates of stiffness/ compression etc...
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#26
10-25-2002, 03:08 PM
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The SportLine struts & 500E springs are a very well balanced combination of comfort and sport.
Going to SportLine struts on the 500E makes for a very responsive front end. Remember, the tire diameter for the 500E is 26-inches vs. 25-inches for all the other W124's. So while the SportLine front strut is stiffer at all times than the 500E front struts, the increased tire diameter (and hence more sidewall) is more forgiving. Since the Hammer wagon is based upon the 25-inch diameter tire, I would go with early 500E front struts and springs. IMHO, the SportLine setup on a 16-inch (+1) or 17-inch (+2) wheel is just too stiff for anything but the track or smoothest roads. :-) neil 1988 360TE AMG 1993 500E
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#27
10-25-2002, 11:40 PM
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Dave said:
Quote:
Dave, I don't think that's true. See, the extra length only allows the wheel to pull away further from the chassis, which allows more total extension. But the car rarely ever rides with the wheel so far extended. When I jack up my cars (with lowering springs and "normal" shocks), I am always amazed at the huge gap created between tire and fender. The car usually only uses the top few inches of the shock travel. What the 500E struts are doing is eliminating the unused portion of the travel. Because they are shorter, when you jack up the car the gap between tire+fender should also be less. No change to the control arm geometry should be required. The 500E control arms are identical to the other 124's, they just use shorter struts with special innards.  I'm very tempted to try Neil's combo with the 500E struts, but I'm 99% sure my very firm ride is due to the Neuspeed springs, not the dampers. One of these days I'll get around to it (along with all my other projects - E420 brake upgrade, S500 alternator, etc...) Regards,
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#28
10-26-2002, 12:34 AM
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Dave- you're right that your firm-ride is most likely due to the springs.
While the SportLine springs & struts combo can't be beat for the track and extremely smooth roads, it's just too fatiguing on city streets and long trips. When I switched to 500E front springs, with SportLine struts, it was definitely more forgiving. Then when I sent to 500E front struts, combined with the shorter sidewall of the regular W124 vs. a 500E, it was a perfect compromise. :-) neil
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#29
10-26-2002, 12:48 AM
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Neil, thanks for the info. Question about the 500E struts: What is the difference between the early & late versions, and which would I need for old (1987) knuckles/spindles? Which did you use on your wagon?
Also - what did you use on the rear? I have sedans without self-leveling, so the 500E rear shocks won't work for me (I assume). Not sure what to do there (if anything). Hmmm. Maybe I should just buy a 500E and be done with it. Or maybe a nice mid-90's C32/C43... 
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#30
10-26-2002, 01:13 AM
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The early 500E struts are a little stiffer than the late model 500E struts. To me the early struts are just right.
I'm just using 500E rear springs on the rear of the wagon, along with 500E rear swaybars. I'd just put in 500E rear swaybar and see how you like it. If you want it stiffer than go 500E rear springs. You could do SportLine rear shocks, but don't do SportLine rear springs unless you want a stiff ride ALL THE TIME. :-) neil PS: get the 500E . . .
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