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  #16  
Old 04-19-2013, 02:04 AM
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m102 turbo

This some of the job i am doing currently, i am confident its going to look and work fine.

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'85 190E Mosselman-123-2.jpg   '85 190E Mosselman-123-4.jpg  
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2013, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotuning View Post
I have been working near 10 years in turbocharging the 2,3 8v and 16v, I am more into performance rater then if mosselman or x makes the turbo or supercharging kit. If I had a Mercedes with a Mosslman probably I will keep it and improve it (efi-intercooler) just to keep runing 7psi not more. For me it's a little hard to inderstand how these kits improve the performance since don't have a clue how does manages the fuel enrichment, when I made it with K- jettronic, kE and motronic I end up making too many custom parts and for just runing 7 psi did not make sense anymore, that's why I used Megasquirt 3X ending up with much many features and advanced tuning and performance, I have a lots of respect for the people who designed the Amg's-mosselman etc etc. I would really like to know the list of the kit made by mosselman, I have some pictures of one brand new that was for sale but its had parts too basic and don thing it's the complete one. You have some really cool cars guys, keep them like that.
Mosselman supplied a piggy back electronic fuel enrichment control that modified the signal to the KE-Jetronic or HFM control.
It is limited in boost enrichment.

TurboTechnics left the KE-Jet or HFM settings untouched and stock.
They achieved enrichment via Hobbs switches and an electronic stand alone control that fired 2 additional injectors on the KE-Jet and one additional on the HFM.
Again limited by old technology.

The great thing about the TurboTechnics additional injectors is that the control can be easily upgraded to a Split Second AIC1 which is computer programmable and mappable through the boost range. It has an internal MAP sensor and doesn't depend on Hobbs switches to sense MAP. The modern control allows enrichment beyond .5 bar boost.

Ed A.
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2013, 01:33 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 36
Thanks for the reply, first time I heard about the specs or how they ran those kits, I used switches and micro switches in different stages, really hard to tune, also use the Porsche 928 and 914 fuel pressure regulators with better results but still nothing close to what I wanted, also used additional fuel injectors and cold start injector and end up fine, but not that perfect, I replaced all piping per fuel braided hoses and many other mods, my problem the time was spark even I used MSD 6AL, I could never get rid of the knocking after 4600rpms except adding the extra fuel, the differential fuel pressure regulator compensate the boost but never made the enrichment that fine. I tested the car in track racing and did pretty good, very reliable and stable, I would say for endurance races probably those engines will last forever. BTW has anyone taken the red M103 turbotechnichs kit to a Dino to test HP and torque, turbocharging a 6cyl its always been in my mind. Regards

ADOLFO MALAVASI

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBYCC View Post
Mosselman supplied a piggy back electronic fuel enrichment control that modified the signal to the KE-Jetronic or HFM control.
It is limited in boost enrichment.

TurboTechnics left the KE-Jet or HFM settings untouched and stock.
They achieved enrichment via Hobbs switches and an electronic stand alone control that fired 2 additional injectors on the KE-Jet and one additional on the HFM.
Again limited by old technology.

The great thing about the TurboTechnics additional injectors is that the control can be easily upgraded to a Split Second AIC1 which is computer programmable and mappable through the boost range. It has an internal MAP sensor and doesn't depend on Hobbs switches to sense MAP. The modern control allows enrichment beyond .5 bar boost.

Ed A.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotuning View Post
Thanks for the reply, first time I heard about the specs or how they ran those kits, I used switches and micro switches in different stages, really hard to tune, also use the Porsche 928 and 914 fuel pressure regulators with better results but still nothing close to what I wanted, also used additional fuel injectors and cold start injector and end up fine, but not that perfect, I replaced all piping per fuel braided hoses and many other mods, my problem the time was spark even I used MSD 6AL, I could never get rid of the knocking after 4600rpms except adding the extra fuel, the differential fuel pressure regulator compensate the boost but never made the enrichment that fine. I tested the car in track racing and did pretty good, very reliable and stable, I would say for endurance races probably those engines will last forever. BTW has anyone taken the red M103 turbotechnichs kit to a Dino to test HP and torque, turbocharging a 6cyl its always been in my mind. Regards

ADOLFO MALAVASI
My circa 1991 TurboTechnics kit installed on a M103-12V with stock compression and internals has been dyno'd numerous times.
The enrichment control is via a Split Second additional injector controller that fires the two additional injectors that are located above the throttle body in the air valve assembly. The AFR's were programmed on a dyno with 11.7AFR at .5 bar boost.

The dyno pulls were made on a Mustang load dyno which reads about 15% lower then the more common inertia type dyno. The load dyno gives a more real world reading as load/resistance is applied to the driving wheels much like what must be overcome on the street.

Dyno numbers are purely analytical and best used for comparison of before and after equipment change and tune.

1988 M103-12V USA catalytic converter version.

HP / Torque

Published 177 HP / 188 FTLB
Stock RWP dyno 135 HP / 145 FTLB
Turbo RWP dyno 262 HP / 302 FTLB

The real number you look at is power increase.
262/135 = 94% RWP increase
302/145 = 108% Torque increase.

Extrapolate to crank power using published ratings.
HP 1.94 x 177 = 344
Torque 2.08 x 188 = 391

Boost is set at .5 bar and KE-Jetronic is stock and set to factory specification.

Ed A.
__________________
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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  #20  
Old 04-20-2013, 03:20 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 36
m103

Very interesting numbers, always thought the 2.6 its 168.3 ps 166 bhp @ 5800 RPM, did you have improvements in RPMS or a better acceleration curve?

My tests in different cars has show me at least that @ 1 Bar the power multiplies 80% more, not in all the cars of course but seems the TurboTechnics kit its pretty good according your numbers, the 344HP are very close to what i thought could get out of a M103 @1 bar but you are boosting .5psi so that kit really gets the power out the engine.

In my case i had modified the head gasket cause always blown in an specific section no matter if it was just installed @ 1 Bar was gone, so i had to make it from scratch, reinforce it in different material very similar to the diesel gaskets and used heavy duty glue (caterpillar) and that was the end of problems, probable one in bronze its better, we had it made in this material for an E30 M3 supercharged and works very good. I would like to buy rods in H and JE pistons and rings, etc to increase up to 1.5 or 2 Bar, bolts are ARP already, but will see in the future seems to be a $3k investment to improve maybe 80-90 HP.

Thanks for sharing.

Adolfo

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBYCC View Post
My circa 1991 TurboTechnics kit installed on a M103-12V with stock compression and internals has been dyno'd numerous times.
The enrichment control is via a Split Second additional injector controller that fires the two additional injectors that are located above the throttle body in the air valve assembly. The AFR's were programmed on a dyno with 11.7AFR at .5 bar boost.

The dyno pulls were made on a Mustang load dyno which reads about 15% lower then the more common inertia type dyno. The load dyno gives a more real world reading as load/resistance is applied to the driving wheels much like what must be overcome on the street.

Dyno numbers are purely analytical and best used for comparison of before and after equipment change and tune.

1988 M103-12V USA catalytic converter version.

HP / Torque

Published 177 HP / 188 FTLB
Stock RWP dyno 135 HP / 145 FTLB
Turbo RWP dyno 262 HP / 302 FTLB

The real number you look at is power increase.
262/135 = 94% RWP increase
302/145 = 108% Torque increase.

Extrapolate to crank power using published ratings.
HP 1.94 x 177 = 344
Torque 2.08 x 188 = 391

Boost is set at .5 bar and KE-Jetronic is stock and set to factory specification.

Ed A.

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