I was thinking a 3/8", water jet cut, steel plate that would mate the front bell housing pattern to any engine pattern. All you would need is a CAD drawing of what you want. Rear bell housing pattern is for a Getrag, I don't know how uniform they are bolt wise. Any good machine shop could make a tranny input shaft to any length and spline pattern you needed. An aluminum bell housing set up for a slave cylinder and throwout arm at that price has me dazzled. Just a thought.

> Rear bell housing pattern is for a Getrag, I don't know how uniform they are bolt wise.
It occurs to me that we probably don't know either.

I have a bellhousing here from a 240D and a 4-speed. I don't think I've ever bothered to see if it could bolt on a 265. Given that I've never heard of anybody doing this combination of parts, it probably doesn't, but that doesn't excuse me from not bothering to check.

But we're looking at different combinations of bells, plates and how they do or don't fit in an engine compartment.

-CTH

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My error, I thought you were looking for a one off piece. Youv'e probably already thought of this but it seems like the simplest solution, as you already have all the specs you need, would be to have a 3D CAD drawing made, take it to a shop with a 3D printer and have a nylon mold made, then use it to start casting. Do the one you see the most demand for first then offer others as interest shows. From start of drawing to finish mold shouldn't take more than a couple of days. 3D printers are so cheap now (2-3K) you might want to invest in one yourself.

I have not checked this thread for a long time now and thought I would take a peek.... I see there have been some recent posts.

I have been part of another thread where the 265 was looked into for an OM61X application using a MB 4 speed bell housing with an adaptor plate, or casting a new bell housing.

The issue with the 265 and the MB bell housing is the 265 is fatter that the MB 4 speed and is in the way of where the external slave cylinder needs to be. Now one solution is to use a hydraulic throughout bearing from a different application, there are lots of options to choose from.

In the case of the OM61X application, the 265 needed to be spaced back about an inch or so, and I believe that it was possible to put in both 265 and MB bolt patterns in the adaptor plate so the 265 could be bolted to the MB bell housing with the correct input shaft length needed for the OM61X.

I have a converter housing for a 61X and a 60X application. That being said, "we" (the m117/119 group) are focused on the gas V8 engines, I have both a M117/119 block in my shop right now, I have not looked at the OM bell housing to see how it compares to the M11X blocks. But, for that concept to work, you would need an adaptor plate to mate the 265 to the MB OM61X bell, and then another adaptor plate to mate the bell to the M11X block.

OM616:

Is the work you are doing with the M117/M119 clutch housing contained in a thread, or is a write-up in the offing?
Frank

There are some bits and pieces in this thread, but as for a concentrated thread describing the step by step process, no. There is a small group of members who have gotten together and are funding this project, and because their goal is to sell some to recover the investment, I am reluctant to disclose any information about the design and or process.

I know that sounds stuck up, but, keep this in mind, this is an investment for the group, should any of them decide that it would benefit the effort to post information about the project, they are unrestricted as to their ability to disclose that which they are paying for. I am not in that position.

I feel that I can say that there are two results that are being looked at, one is a new hybrid Getrag 420G 6-speed transmission to M117/119 engines housing, the other is a traditional bell housing to mate the Getrag 265, 5-speed to the M117/119 engines.

If you are looking for a one-off method that is truly inexpensive and lo-tech
try this, Caveman tech - building a bellhousing for a flathead cadillac - THE H.A.M.B.
If your good at TIG this could be done with aluminum. Can be as pretty as you want to make it.

OM616:

Thanks for the prompt reply; I fully appreciate and concur with your position vis a vis the info you are developing. This question, I think, is non-proprietary: are any of the block-to-clutch housing bolt locations common to both the M117 & M119? If there are differences, would you give us all a description of same?
Frank

Now of course you would think your question is not in conflict lol...

Any information, regardless of nature, that is not publicly known, and is derived directly or indirectly as a result of a financially supported effort, is by nature proprietary, now granted there are different levels of value to such information.

I mention the above because several people spent money to purchase parts and ship them to me, allowing me to have everything in one place to compare to each other. The very reason for such efforts and expenditures was to, in small part, answer the very question you asked about the bolt patterns. As such I feel I have to get permission from the group before I post any such information.

I do know, as in, I have read in other threads, that the m117 and m119 bell housing bolts are the same except for 1 bolt, but that it was not known for sure. I think I am safe in confirming that rumor.

The bell housing(s) in process will have provisions to allow usage with either engine.

Do you have a project you are working on?

OM616:

To your question about a project of mine, yes. I began with the objective of creating a clutch housing for the aluminum block M116/117 configuration, and to accept the Borg Warner/Tremec T-5. I am using the intermediate plate from the iron block version (which requires relocating the top two bolt holes inboard by 10mm each). A steel Lakewood housing which has the Ford T-5 pattern is in process of being reflanged to merge with the MB intermediate plate. In addition, I am adding a back plate to a cut off converter housing from the 722.0/1/2 series transmissions, which will accept the T-5. The Ford T-5 pattern trans case is narrow enough on the left side to leave room for a slave cylinder on the back of the clutch housing. Although the steel version will be usable as is, I am viewing the aluminum version as a plug for mold making. I have located an autoclave facility about 35 miles away that has more than enough capacity to do a housing, and as a consequence, am looking at the possibility of making a carbon reinforced epoxy piece. Although the steel housing will soon be operational, the composite version, at this time, is, admittedly, aspirational.
Frank

I feel a lot more comfortable with the steel housing being welded than the aluminum one. Although I have seen a few cast aluminum housings welded up, I am not a fan, the material is very poor for welding to say the least, just my 2 cents...

I have seen the composite concept actually used in a drive shaft and bell housing before on a prostock car. The Drive shaft would not live long with 2000 HP going to it. The bell housing did better, but in the end the car ended up with a traditional scatter shield housing and aluminum drive shaft.

To get the bell housing to be strong enough and meet SFI standards it weighed almost as much as the standard scatter shield. The nice thing about the composite one was it was 99% Kevlar and was a fantastic containment device, it was the bonding resin that was the issue with the strength, so maybe with the right bonding agent, it would be a possibility.

I will be having the foundry prepare the tooling and casting the housings, also they will be T-6 heat treated for extra strength. They will be nicer than the AMG conversion housings for sure, at least the ones I have seen.

I don't know if the dimensions are right but a Mazda M50d trany internal slave would seem to be a cost reducer as it would only require adapter and instructions,taking into consideration: the realative avalability of bellhousings; flywheels; clutches;slave cylinders; and transmisions. Just an idea I don't have a place to test it but would like to see/ help with a conversion kit.
Jon

Never heard of the Mazda M50d, so I googled "Mazda M50d transmission internal slave"
and found Writeup - Transmission Swap (FM146 to M5OD) and Complete Clutch Upgrade - The Ranger Station Forums

Another thread complained about it's inability to adjust it's throw, unlike an external slave cylinder.

-CTH

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Are you talking about a 265 kit for the OM (diesel) engines? If so, a member in the diesel tuning section has that adaptor basically designed and modeled in CAD.

If you are interested I can see if I can get you two together.

That would be awesome!
Thanks Jon

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Jonathan Rich

300SD in repair from wreck
300D