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  #31  
Old 06-22-2004, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbhebert
PURE Motorsport sells Vogtland progressive rate lowering springs for the 123 chassis, as well as most others. They are not a normally stocked part, but they can get them from Germany. They take about 6-8 weeks for delivery, and are $244 shipped to the lower 48. Their website is http://www.purems.com if you need to get in touch with them.
I just talked to pure motorsport, and they said that Vogtland discontinued them for the w123. Too bad. Where did you get your information? I'm still searching for lowering springs for my car.

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  #32  
Old 06-22-2004, 10:58 PM
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I got my info straight from PURE Motorsports. I ordered a set less than a month ago, and at the time there was no problem, so this must be a recent occurance. I am not aware of any other companies that are doing lowering springs for 123 chassis cars, but I'll keep an eye out. Whatever you find will likely need to be imported from Europe, since the 123 is modified far more over there than in the states.
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  #33  
Old 06-23-2004, 01:14 PM
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Post Vogtland spring kit W123 application

Vogtland presently does not have the springs for that application in stock in Germany as part number 952002 has been discontinued. However, if there is enough interest Vogtland can produce a short run of springs.

Forum members should contact Michael at Pure Motorsport initiate a group purchase.

Ideally 10 vehicle sets are required; however I indicated to Michael that 5 sets would be a minimum. Economy of scale will dictate the final price for the kits. The more kits that are order the better the price to the end user.

Should you have other requirements you can contact Vogtland directly
43391 Business Park Dr. C6
Temecula, CA 92590
Ph: 909.694.6981
Fx: 909.694.6985

Richard Jonec
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  #34  
Old 06-23-2004, 03:49 PM
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I finally looked at those tires, they are P205/70R14s which makes them 2.2% faster than the stock tires. The sidewalls are .2" larger than stock so it'd lose that much gap in the wheel wells.
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  #35  
Old 03-19-2005, 11:46 PM
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Here's a uneducated question on this old thread that I was looking at. What would the result of just cutting the stock spring be. I'm thinking with less spring to "spring" it would tighten up thus giving a similar effect to a high dollar lowering spring.
Has anybody tried cutting springs???
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  #36  
Old 03-19-2005, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilspot
Here's a uneducated question on this old thread that I was looking at. What would the result of just cutting the stock spring be. I'm thinking with less spring to "spring" it would tighten up thus giving a similar effect to a high dollar lowering spring.
Has anybody tried cutting springs???
It's generally frowned upon for the reason that the spring rate changes. The rate goes up and the spring becomes stiffer. On a M/B, personally, I don't think it is that big of a deal. If you remove 1 coil out of 15, you have stiffened the spring by less than 7%.


I'm going to do exactly that on the SDL's front springs. I want to lower it by about 1 inch. This will be about 1/2 to 3/4 of one coil. Sure beats spending a ton of money on lowering springs that will cause it to ride like a tank.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 03-21-2005 at 04:12 PM. Reason: incorrect information
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  #37  
Old 03-20-2005, 11:10 AM
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Did you ever get a chance to do your rear springs and see if that had any effect on it Brian?
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  #38  
Old 03-20-2005, 11:27 AM
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Well, I'm hoping for some warmer weather before I tackle it. Rob and I purchased a proper spring compressor for doing the job and I'm going to do the subframe bushings at the same time.

I'm very sure that the improvement in the rear will drop the front by one inch.

I can see the result every time I jack up the rear to work on the rear brakes (three times in the last two weeks). After it comes down off the jack, the springs are extended more than normal and the vehicle looks dead level. This lasts overnight and the springs then settle back down to their normal (low) position.

You could make a good case that I would be wasting my time playing around with the front, and, you would probably be right. I'll certainly wait until the rear is proper before making any decisions about cutting the front springs.
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  #39  
Old 03-21-2005, 01:44 PM
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Cut Springs

Please note that if you cut a spring you will not reduce the spring rate. You will generally increase the spring’s rate. By reducing the coil count you are decreasing the active coils. The key point is decreasing the active coils. If everything remains the same physically and dimensionally and you decrease the active coil count, the spring rate will increase. The way the front spring is configured a on a W123 you can trim the front and rear bottom coil and you will increase the spring rate.

Please note that you if trim too much material, it can overstress the spring and as a result the spring loose load capacity because it may sag. If you are going to trim a spring use a high speed cut-off wheel as it will only heat up the spring in a small area and not be detrimental to the heat treat. Do not use a torch to cut coils or apply heat to the coils to reduce the loaded height. This will anneal the wire in the heat zone and you will have problems with a spring sagging etc.

Since the spring is mounted inboard on the chassis the suspension has leverage on the spring so the drop will not be proportionate to the amount that you cut the spring. Keep this in mind before you attempt to cut the springs to get the drop that you desire.

You can also use the thinnest spring pad to achieve a small drop. Most cars have a 2 - 3 point pad so use a 1 point pad and you can reduce the vehicle height up to 15 mm.

Like I said if there is enough interest we can produce a short run of TUV approved W123 springs. That would properly lower the car front and rear and you do not have to go through the trial and error of cutting springs and have issues with cut springs that will not fit properly in the spring seat.

Richard
Vogtland North America, Inc.
951.694.6981
www.vogtland.com
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  #40  
Old 03-21-2005, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjonec
Please note that if you cut a spring you will not reduce the spring rate. You will generally increase the spring’s rate. By reducing the coil count you are decreasing the active coils. The key point is decreasing the active coils. If everything remains the same physically and dimensionally and you decrease the active coil count, the spring rate will increase. The way the front spring is configured a on a W123 you can trim the front and rear bottom coil and you will increase the spring rate.
I'd just like some clarification:

If the rate is 1" deflection per 500 lb. force (as an example), and one coil is removed, thereby leaving less active coils, it appears that the rate would go to 1.05" per 500 lb. force (as an example).

This is an example of an reduced spring rate and a softer spring.

Or do I have it backwards:

If the rate is 1" deflection per 500 lb. force (as an example), and one coil is removed, thereby leaving less active coils, the rate would go to .95" per 500 lb. force (as an example).

This is an example of an increased spring rate and a stiffer spring.


It would appear that a spring with less active coils to support a given load would result in each coil bearing more load and thereby result in each coil deflecting slightly more.
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  #41  
Old 03-21-2005, 02:22 PM
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a coil pring is the same exact thing as a torsion bar...........curled up...

Shorten that bar and the rate goes up.
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  #42  
Old 03-21-2005, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
a coil pring is the same exact thing as a torsion bar...........curled up...

Shorten that bar and the rate goes up.
Why do I think of it as less coils to support the same load?
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  #43  
Old 03-21-2005, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
a coil pring is the same exact thing as a torsion bar...........curled up...

Shorten that bar and the rate goes up.
It just makes sense. Take a spring made of a certain diameter material. Apply a force to it and measure the deflection -- that's the definition of rate. Increase the length of the spring, and apply the same force to it. You will get a larger deflection, which equals lower rate. The opposite is true -- cut a spring and the rate increases. You will increase the load (per unit length) on the spring by cutting it, but it would take quite a bit of load to overload it (just don't bind it up!)
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  #44  
Old 03-21-2005, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
Why do I think of it as less coils to support the same load?

A spring works by twisting....the actual rate is basicly that cross section diameter and the length...........make it longer the rate decreaces....make it shorter the rate increaces...assuming the diameter remains the same....thats why a shorter spring has a higher rate....sometimes a much higher rate.

Chopped springs tend to pogo on a lowered car becasue the rate is so high the shockes can't dampen it...
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  #45  
Old 03-21-2005, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
A spring works by twisting....the actual rate is basicly that cross section diameter and the length...........make it longer the rate decreaces....make it shorter the rate increaces...assuming the diameter remains the same....thats why a shorter spring has a higher rate....sometimes a much higher rate.

Chopped springs tend to pogo on a lowered car becasue the rate is so high the shockes can't dampen it...
Clearly, this must be true. The longer length of wire allows more movement and therefore a softer spring with a decreased rate.

Somehow, I got to thinking that less coils means more deflection per coil, but, this can't be true.

If you chopped the spring down to two coils, there would be negligible movement when the load is applied.

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