Could someone explain what the difference is between diesel #1 and #2 and home heating oil? Also, the mercedes manual says you can cut diesel #2 with up to 50% kerosene in winter driving. so is kerosene safe to use up to 50%?

#1 Diesel is for winter, #2 is for summer. You don't really need #1 diesel unless you are in a colder climate, and mixing #2 with kerosene is not always the best thing to do.

Have never even seen diesel #1 for sale here on the West coast!

The exact difference is not known to me, but here is the limited information I do know: Home heating oil and diesel used "on-road" have vastly differing amounts of sulfer content. The diesel is also dyed so inspectors can tell the two types appart (Red for road use, green for non-highway). The number relating to diesel is related to it's flow characteristics. For example #8 "bunker oil" needs to be preheated just to flow into burners in large industrial boilers. I don't know if this helps, good luck.

As it was explained to me Diesel #1 is just a lighter version of Diesel #2, just as Antony described. #1 is preferrable in very cold climates because of a much lower gel point (it won't solidify as quickly as #2). Generally speaking, you need to get temperatures down into the teens before it matters. #2 with the proper additives will have a sufficently low gel point for most of the lower 49 states except some areas in the Great White North. The penalty for using #1 is that it contains less specific energy than an equivalant amount of #2 so your milage suffers. Mixing kerosene is for those who either can't get #1 and/or are in really cold climates. If you try that be sure to follow the MBZ recommendations exactly. In general, it should be unnecessary to have to fool with Kerosene. I've never seen #1 for sale in California (at least labelled as such) but I've heard that you can find it sometimes in the Sierras. Most all the service stations convert to a "winter Blend" in the Fall. Whether this is more additives, a blend or pure #1, I don't know. I've been up there a number of times in really cold weather and never had a problem as long as I used additives.

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LRG
1987 300D Turbo 175K
2006 Toyota Prius, efficent but no soul
1985 300 TDT(130K miles of trouble free motoring)now sold

Some of the information in the other posts is correct.


There are a few different kinds of #2,Low sulfer on-highway no-dye(red).#2 off-highway high sulfer with red dye. Off highway fuels have higher sulfer content and are cheaper because they are taxed different. #2 has parafin wax in it which solidifies at about 15*f. It also has a higher btu content with the parafin wax.#2 is not dyed green it just looks like it because of the additives. Some fuels have a slight green color, some brown, some clear.

If you get caught with red fuel in an on-highway vehicle you better bend over because you will get a very steep fine.

You can run keroseen or #1 all year long if you want to but since it has fewer btu's than #2 you will suffer in fuel mpg and power.
You can blend #1 and #2 fuels all you want any time of year you want with no damage to the engine.


Keroseen and #1 are about the same except, kero. is refined more for things like space heaters. It's almost the same as jet fuel.

All these fuels lubricate the fuel system just fine. Remember- most Mb fuel systems are basicly low pressure 200 300 psi max. So just about any clean fuel oil will work.

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87' 300sdl

Hey BJ:

I wish I'd paid more attention to your location, I was in Ft. Wayne on a "flying trip" for Thanksgiving, drove the 300D!

The difference between # 1 and #2 diesel is the amount of light distillate and the exact cut-off of the heavier paraffins -- #2 goes up to C34 or C38 while #2 only goes to C24 or so (I think, been a while since I did GC work on fuels). Basically, the other descriptions are fine.

Kerosene will give you noticably less power, and the newer (601/2/3) diesels won't run on gasoline -- they start, but quit pretty fast. Older engines will run, but not usually start, and it will be VERY hard on the injection pump.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Thanks for the info.
So what about home heating oil? Can it be used without damage to the engine? Also, if kerosene and diesel #1 are the same, why would running kerosene damage the engine?

I think you and I are the only ones from the Hoosier state!

I know a little about fuels. What is c34,c38 and c24? Is that the paraffin content? I've done some reading in the Catterpillar fuel systems guide,seems like the more research I do the more I find out I don't know! I guess that is part of humility.



Barry

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87' 300sdl

Barry:

I am from Noblesville, just north oif Indianpolis.

I know there is at least one other diesel lover from somewhere in Northern Indiana, because of some things he mentioned in another thread. I was familiar with the things he mentioned because I lived near Lake Michigan until about fourteen years ago.

I don't know if it is different in other parts of the country but around the Midwest, any road taxed diesel fuel is NOT dyed red. Off road diesel fuel or farm use diesel fuel is dyed Red. Home heating oil can be used in any amount but does not have the same additive package. Use some of your favorite Cetane Boost if you run the heating oil. I wouldn't use home heating oil in the dead of winter either......

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Orland Park, IL
1985 300SD 215,000 miles

I'll have to check on the heating oil. I don't think heating oil is as refined as the others and as billrok said it doesn't have the additive package.

Where did you get the info the says kerosene will damage your engine? I think the OEM has to recommend a fuel that would meet EPA spec. Even though it is ok to run straight kerosene or fuel oil they haven't got the certification from the EPA.

Mike123 Great we are all most neighbors!!

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87' 300sdl

Barry:

The C number are the number of carbon atoms in the straight-chain linear hydrocarbons (paraffins) in the fuel.

Additives in diesel fuel? What additives? Diesel fuel in the US is basically just plain distillation range petroleum. Not much in the way of additives of any kind. The cetane rating is contolled by the exact distillation range from each source, not by additives. Cheapest stuff on the road. Too cheap in some ways, since it is fairly dirty compared to "synthetic" diesel fuel (also known as biodiesel). This is why it varies so much from station to station (or at least brand to brand).

Kerosene has more light chain hydrocabons (C8 to C16) than # 1 or # 2 diesel, and hence has lower energy content. Gasoline has only traces of anything larger than C10, and doesn't lubricate well enough, nor burn properly to use in a diesel.

Color and cloud point/pour point vary quite a bit -- back in the 70's I used to test diesel fuel Alcoa had stored for emergency use, and it was all #2 by label. Some had a pour point of 0 degrees F and some had a pour point of -30 degrees F. Rather wide specification range......

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Hi mdlwolf,

This is a great thread you started. Much of my confussion has been cleared up thanks to unput from the forum guru's.

I used to order 500 gallons of heating oil every month for a hungry Cummins turbo diesel generator at work. I spoke to manufacture reps of with the same questions, and found that for what ever reason, more sulfer in the fuel, was not detremental to the engine. I know this if vague. An MB mechanic, recently told me that MORE sulfur was ok.
I don't know, maybe.

I know if I had home heating oil at my house, I know my thoughts would ever be thinking of pumps & hoses. but hmm, would it be worth the risk?

Dave:

Sulfur is great for the engine -- better lubrication (the sulfur containing compounds work like oil) and the sulfur catalyzes combustion to produce less soot and slightly better ignition. However, it also produces more benzenes (carcinogens) in the soot, and of course lots of nice sulfuric acid mist, great for corroding exhaust and lungs. Not nice stuff.

The fine for using off-road or heating oil in the car would keep you in fuel for years. Don't take the risk, buy good fuel. Also, home heating oil tends to be on the heavy end, since the vast majority is expected to be stored in underground tanks, or inside tanks like mine in Canada.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!