Hey everyone,

I have a Southern CA 1982 240d. The exhaust is original, with some slight surface corrosion but it's a solid system that's nearly 40 years old.

In theory, are our original exhaust mufflers higher quality than modern replacements like ANSA? Should we hang on to them for as long as they're solid?

Exhausts are so cheap, I was considering replacing it with the idea that the internal material is probably pretty worn out? Maybe inefficient or choked after all this time? However, I wouldn't be surprised if the original OE muffler was built to better specs than today's standards. Does anyone have insight here, if my priority is fuel efficiency and airflow?

Thank you!

If it looks good leave it. Yes, OE often Eberspacher is very high quality. Food for thought... exhaust parts are getting difficult to source, consider getting what is available now for future use.

Good luck!!!

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"Rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength" - Eric Hoffer

I've been driving east coast cars always. I've done one exhaust on every Benz at some point. That point was when the system rotted out and the noise got too abusive. My kid got out of an excessive noise ticket when he explained it was dad's car.
All I can say if it's not failing, drive it till it does. Swapping parts because they get old is a self defeating game. You change things when they get worn. You may want to lay in the parts and save em till you need them.
Short take: worry about something else.

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95 E300D gave away
77 300D, 227k, station car
83 300CD 370k, body gone away to the rust gods, engine is in a Yota pickup, going strong
89 190E 2.6- 335k, no more
79 VW FI Bus- 154k summer driver
59 VW Beetle ragtop- 175k
12 VW Jetta- 250k
74 MG Midget-78k

I changed the complete exhaust on my 85 300D last year. I did have some trouble getting the parts. Local Canadian muffler shops like Midas and Speedy Muffler could not source them. Some on-line sources listed them, but when I went to order they could not ship.

I eventually was able to get the front pipe from an MB OE source and ANSA pipes and muffler from Rckotto. The ANSA were actually from a UK company Klarius, who had merged with ANSA. Didn't fit quite right, but we modified to work. Rck were helpful, but Klarius did not even answer emails.
In USA you may have better luck.

I agree that I wouldn't change unless the pipes or muffler look like they will soon fail. Two OE systems + 1 extra muffler lasted 35 years driving 450k km in snow, salt, rain and heat

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

When it comes to exhaust, OE and aftermarket, there are essentially 3 types of materials used that dominate the industry:
Mild Steel: low cost, low corrosion resistance, short lifespan
400 series Stainless: medium cost, better corrosion resistance than mild steel, med lifespan. Most common 409 Stainless
300 series Stainless: True stainless steel, expensive, excellent corrosion resistance, very long lifespan. Most common 304, 316.

Many of the MBs were fitted with 300 series exhaust systems which is why many of those are still intact 35+ years later.

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Stable Mates:
1987 300TD 310K mi (Hans)
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee OM642 165k mi (Benzrokee)

Where did you got that info. Do you have a list of which models came from factory with stainless exhausts?

I have owned 5 Mercedes built between 1972 and 2014. Never had one with an OE stainless exhaust. Most seems to be aluminized steel.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

I'll second what Graham said, above. I've owned three Mercedes, a 1972, 1978, 1999, and worked on a bunch of others. None had stainless exhaust, and all were in various states of failure/rot.
Maybe the exhaust was "stain resistant"

Phil Forrest

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1972 220D "Trudy," named by a friend.

"The 220D sounds good... I suspect it is the only car that you need a calendar for, rather than a stopwatch, when doing acceleration tests."
Tom Abrahamsson

Cant say what models and or years where stainless was used definitively, but every one of my OM60x cars (5 from 86-92, W124, W126, W461) had stainless exhaust. My 87 wagon is still on its original exhaust and that is confirmed 300 series stainless tubing. Plus I have a spare OE system for this car and it is also 300 series. My OM642 2008 also uses stainless from the factory, although that may be somewhere between a 3-400 series, it has no surface rust, golden in color but is magnetic, whereas the 60x exhaust systems from earlier were/are non magnetic.

Maybe its more prevalent in the diesel side? Cant say, I've only owned a couple of MB gassers, and one, the R129 SL had stainless as well. It was and still is common on high end luxury cars across multiple brands, Jag, BMW, etc. mid 80's onwards to come with a stainless exhaust. Mufflers and accessories such as catalysts may vary from the tubing and may not always be of the same grade, mix n match of materials at times.

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Stable Mates:
1987 300TD 310K mi (Hans)
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee OM642 165k mi (Benzrokee)

No noticeable rust on either of my 300D's, nor on the 1983 I parted last Spring, but didn't notice it was stainless (could be). All are CA cars, so no-rust isn't unusual. Good that I saved the exhaust from the 1983 since a month ago my daughter drove home with sparks coming out behind our 1984 300D. The Police stopped her and were nice enough to strap the exhaust up with nylon ties to drive home. I found the whole rear section missing (resonator and pipe in front of it), and the pipe after the muffler had been dragging to wear a crescent. I suspect the 4 rubber donuts which secure the resonator broke. My daughter could have ran off the road (late at night) to push the resonator up and then the donuts popped off (she isn't the type to tell), since I did notice some clay above the muffler. Regardless, if the resonator drops down, anything which whacks it hard can slide it off the middle pipe where it is clamped.

I replaced the whole system (muffler and resonator, not down-pipe) with the spare parts in short time. I tied nylon rope around the new donuts hangers to make them less likely to pop loose. I added a metal strap in front of the resonator which will catch the pipe if it ever drops again. A bit strange that the muffler itself just hangs on the pipes with no support. I also bought better rubber hangers for other M-B models, but they don't really fit. I made it work by installing them sideways, using just one on each car.

Before installing the new muffler, I tried a trick I saw kids doing on youtube to clean the innards. They show starting an internal fire, then keeping it going with a blow-dryer, to burn off carbon. I could only get a fire by pouring some diesel down and it seemed all that burned was that diesel fuel, so perhaps the muffler wasn't full of carbon. The muffler does seem too-heavy like there is stuff in there.

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1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans

Bill GRissom wrote: "I tied nylon rope around the new donuts hangers to make them less likely to pop loose. I added a metal strap in front of the resonator which will catch the pipe if it ever drops again."

I like that idea!

I also found that I could not get the new muffler/pipe installed with the new heavy duty rubber donuts. I used one or two of them but then the original simple type.

If it wasn't so cold here, I would think about adding some secondary support. Maybe rope, wire or even tie-wraps on a bit loose. British call this using belts & braces

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

For anyone curious, I just got an email response from TimeValve, the company that makes stainless w123 exhausts.

They're having a problem with their 240d exhaust design schematic at the moment. They need to source an OE unit to reanalyze their design.

US Model Post-War Stainless Steel Mercedes Benz Exhaust Systems

I'll check back in a few months!

Or you can use muffler hangers with integral chain/wire.
107 492 00 44

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for what it's worth, my 1983 300TD is in need of a new center and rear section..completely rotted out, so I'm doubting that it's stainless steel LOL. I'm pretty sure (as per my long-term, very experienced mechanic) that it's the original system. In any event, I was able to locate the center section (made by ANSA) on eBay. The rear section has been impossible to find. Next week, once the holiday madness has passed, I'll be bringing it to a shop to have the center section installed and a straight pipe rear section fabricated. Had I known what a hassle it would be to find a center section, I probably would've just straight-piped the whole system like I've heard about others doing.I'll bet it would be quieter than the patched-together mess I'm running now..

I did find out that Eberspaecher (sp?) was crippled by a ransomware attack several months ago (cyberterrorism). Apparently they were forced to shut down several plants as a result and hundreds of people were put out of work. I don't know that they even still made exhaust systems for 35+ year old Mercedes cars, but if they did, this could be a reason why they're hard to find at the moment....

Your intuition is 100% spot on. Aftermarket exhausts are cheaply made, saving as much metal as possible. Treat the corrosion using miracle paint and it will last another few decades. When it does eventually fail, order an MB replacement only. Not as good as they were but leagues better than the garbage on the aftermarket.

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Why I will never do business with "DieselKraut" again

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-used-parts-sale-wanted/378935-why-i-will-never-do-business-dieselkraut-again.html

The alternate type I tried were the black ones in photo. I had to install sideways since the metal fingers on my 300D are wide, not round. The red ones shown have larger wide openings, so might fit better. I read of metal chains inside some of these type, but I think the ones I bought are just solid polyurethane. Where can one buy the chain type? I searched PN "107 492 00 44" and find hangers, but they don't state that they have an internal chain. On cars without IRS, the exhaust routes above the rear axle, so that serves as backup when the rubber hangers fail, and you would notice the noise if it sits on the rear axle.

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1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans