Poll- Chilton vs Haynes for your 123 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ROLLGUY · #1 01-08-2020, 08:24 PM

I already know what the consensus will be, but I will ask the question anyway: Which repair manual do you like for your 123? Haynes, or Chilton

ollo · #2 01-08-2020, 08:57 PM

Regret that I let my battered, Used Bookstore, Haynes go with 240D when I sold it. Was full of notes from back in the 80's when I rebuilt a NA 79 300D and again in the 90's when I did a rebuild on my 81 300SD. Was very helpful. TurboDieseel was quite a step up and my Haynes didn't cover the turbo engine but was all I had. Used a local machine shop in Olympia that was named "Thumpers". Machinist encouraged me, but Mercedes techs at the time just tried to discourage me when I talked to them before starting. Engines turned out great. As I recall Chiltons at local library had very minimal info. Don
edit: Chiltons in local library was a general car repair manual that covered multiple makes, models of cars. The one pictured above surely has more info being Mercedes specific, am I wrong that Haynes would be better?? Don

ROLLGUY · #3 01-08-2020, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollo

Regret that I let my battered, Used Bookstore, Haynes go with 240D when I sold it. Was full of notes from back in the 80's when I rebuilt a NA 79 300D and again in the 90's when I did a rebuild on my 81 300SD. Was very helpful. TurboDieseel was quite a step up and my Haynes didn't cover the turbo engine but was all I had. Used a local machine shop in Olympia that was named "Thumpers". Machinist encouraged me, but Mercedes techs at the time just tried to discourage me when I talked to them before starting. Engines turned out great. As I recall Chiltons at local library had very minimal info. Don
edit: Chiltons in local library was a general car repair manual that covered multiple makes, models of cars. The one pictured above surely has more info being Mercedes specific, am I wrong that Haynes would be better?? Don

My opinion is that the Chilton is almost worthless compared to the Haynes. I spent several minutes in the Chilton trying to find the torque spec for the
flywheel bolts, and once I found it, it was not clear at all. The Haynes has all the torque specs on one page.

rocky raccoon · #4 01-08-2020, 10:25 PM

I too prefer Haynes but be careful. For critical information (torque specs for cam cover for example) verify with a second source.

The reason I like Haynes is because they actually do the work and the photos are of dirty fingers holding the actual greasy parts.

cmac2012 · #5 01-09-2020, 03:40 AM

I was an E30 ophile from 2002 until about a year ago. I just sold my last remaining (of 2) E30 a couple of weeks ago for $500. Had an intermittent electronic gremlin I could not find. Would run strong for a few minutes, when it got warm would die - no spark to coil - and not start for a day or two. Oh well, 450K.

I mention that because I had the Haynes and Bentley manuals. I had a rude awakening when I bought my first MB in '06 - an '81 300SD. No manual for the W126 AFAIK. Not enough DIYers I guess. I bought a W123 Haynes for the 617 info and other help, still have it. Now I have an '86 SDL and an '84 300D. Jeez, I wish I had a Bentley for both my cars. I liked having the E30 Haynes to go along with it but if I had to chose - the Bentley hands down.

Dang, just now did a search and I see that Bentley published a 123 manual, though it may be of limited help, not sure:

Quote:

Note: This Mercedes workshop manual covers W123 models sold in Germany and the rest of the world. While some systems and procedures do cross over worldwide, this manual is not intended to fully cover Mercedes-Benz models sold in the US or Canada.

Mercedes-Benz Repair Manual - Mercedes Owner's Workshop Manual: W123: 1976-1986 *-* Bentley Publishers - Repair Manuals and Automotive Books

They also have a W124 manual, same disclaimer. Who knows, might get some OM603 help for my SDL. Not exactly the same motor - mine is the OM 603.961, the W124 had the .913, .960, and .963 variants. Not experienced enough to know what all of that entails.

Please pardon my rambling, not trying to threadjack.

Chilton might be better than nothing. Not sure, I don't use them.

t walgamuth · #6 01-09-2020, 09:20 AM

I have a very old Chiltons from 1971 that I use for the 115. All the newer I use Haynes if available. Also have a half dozen FSM.

Diesel911 · #7 01-09-2020, 09:55 AM

They Haynes manual has info on taking a part manual transmissions and how to use the timing chain crimping tool which is not in the Mercedes Factory Manual on CD.

You could get either or both used on eBay (what I did with the Haynes manual) and not spend much on it.

Way back in 2007-2008 I purchased the Mercedes FSM on CD and bought it bought it from a source that had it costing more then I could have gotten it from then from Mercedes but I have never regretted having it.
Later I found out there was free sites for the same but back then the sites came and went.

I also later got the Printed Manuals and found out the CDs don't have as much in them.

I have always found having the manuals at home a great convince and time saver and having them has saved me money and grief. Having the Manuals and not being dependent on the internet has also occasionally been a boon when the internet has had issues.

kuene · #8 01-09-2020, 10:10 AM

when I first started tinkering, i think the haynes was good for what it had in it - though I also think it lacks some pretty obvious and common basic maintenance/rr jobs while devoting too much to intense full motor tear downs that I'd never do. I was able to source cheap originals of the 2 volume chassis FSM and the 617 turbo motor manual - and those three books seems to have almost everything I've needed. I do wish I had the climate control manual though - since I've been dealing with AC for last year or 2.

ollo · #9 01-09-2020, 10:57 AM

In my old Haynes I had handwritten notes with cautions, extra info and problem solving re the full motor removal, teardown/re-assembly and W126 info. Thought I was done with w123, W126 and let it go, but that was prior to recent electronic fubars of my W220 and W211 which led to buying 82 300SD. Will soon have another Haynes.

Diseasel300 · #10 01-09-2020, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I mention that because I had the Haynes and Bentley manuals. I had a rude awakening when I bought my first MB in '06 - an '81 300SD. No manual for the W126 AFAIK. Not enough DIYers I guess. I bought a W123 Haynes for the 617 info and other help, still have it. Now I have an '86 SDL and an '84 300D. Jeez, I wish I had a Bentley for both my cars. I liked having the E30 Haynes to go along with it but if I had to chose - the Bentley hands down.

Funny, I'm exactly the opposite way. After getting used to the MB manuals (you know MB hosts the factory service manual for free right? It's excellent and gives you just about everything you need to know right from the horse's ass, I mean mouth...) I got a '94 E34 BMW and I've been screaming NON-STOP about how awful the FSM and aftermarket books (Bentley in particular) are when it comes to service data.

BMW's are very electrical and electronics intensive and diagrams and diagnostic info just is NOT THERE for them. Extremely frustrating when you have to just guess. Between the crappy service data, expensive service parts (aftermarket crap for the E34 makes MB OE parts seem reasonable, OE BMW parts will make you cry just thinking about them), and shockingly poorly thought out service access on that car, I've decided that BMW's are not my cup of tea. It runs and drives well enough, but my God I hate working on that thing!

cmac2012 · #11 01-09-2020, 01:33 PM

When my E30 was in its prime, especially the first one, THAT was a fun car to drive. As fast as I need - I think a car that can do 0 - 60 in 4 seconds would get me in trouble in several ways.

But the two that I had - '87s with the two electric fuel pump setup - gave me grief. Always listening for pump whine. OEM pretty spendy. I finally managed to adapt various cheapo pumps to work. I see some good options now, but the intank pump was an expensive pain. I managed on both cars to use a small chevy pump that I hacked to attach to the frame. One time the inline pump went out going up the 6 mile grade south of Ashland. A semi stopped and towed me up to a large clearing and I put in a spare.

For many maintenance and repair issues, the Bentley had more detail that the Haynes, sometimes by a large margin. Oh well, the YMMV disclaimer applies.

cmac2012 · #12 01-09-2020, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

They Haynes manual has info on taking a part manual transmissions and how to use the timing chain crimping tool which is not in the Mercedes Factory Manual on CD.

You could get either or both used on eBay (what I did with the Haynes manual) and not spend much on it.

Way back in 2007-2008 I purchased the Mercedes FSM on CD and bought it bought it from a source that had it costing more then I could have gotten it from then from Mercedes but I have never regretted having it.
Later I found out there was free sites for the same but back then the sites came and went.

I also later got the Printed Manuals and found out the CDs don't have as much in them.

I have always found having the manuals at home a great convince and time saver and having them has saved me money and grief. Having the Manuals and not being dependent on the internet has also occasionally been a boon when the internet has had issues.

I've had poor luck with the FSM download. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong. Poor luck at finding the issue I want to look at. I don't even go to it anymore.

I would love to have hard copies of FSMs. I should look a little harder.

Junkman · #13 01-09-2020, 09:58 PM

I generally use Haynes for either toilet paper or to start a fire in my wood stove but not both at least not the same page at the same time.

Diesel911 · #14 01-09-2020, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I've had poor luck with the FSM download. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong. Poor luck at finding the issue I want to look at. I don't even go to it anymore.

I would love to have hard copies of FSMs. I should look a little harder.

There is some that you view on your computer. Never tried to down load.

Over on Benzworld.org there is a technical manual section there might be something there.

Some of the translated titles and names for things in the FSM don't match with what we use commonly use in the USA.

As an example if you look for information in the FSM on rebuilding a Vacuum Pump you won't find it if you are looking for Vacuum Pump you will find it in the Brake Pneumatic section.

What works for me is when someone has a question I look to see in the manual. If I can't find it I don't post about it. But looking helps me familiarize with the manual. Sometimes I just poke around and see what is there.

Something's like the W123 alignment specs are not in the CD.

ollo · #15 01-10-2020, 09:38 AM

My 1st high end German cars were a 4 door 1970 NK2000 BMW, a 1973 Mercedes 280 sedan, then a 1971 E-3 Bavaria that replaced the 280 I loaned to wife and she kept it!

Still have the Haynes manuals from those BMW's. A replacement Haynes 123 manual for $6.95 shipped is on the way, so I looked for a manual that covered the M110 twin cam six. Just for old time sake, as that engine was my first twin cam valve job.(done with no manual). They are available, but in the $300-$400 range, so I passed. My collection is complete for now. I was impressed with those BMW engine's eccentric cam valve adjustment design.

View Poll Results: Haynes or Chilton's
Haynes	8	100.00%
Chilton's	0	0%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll