True cost of ownership, daily driver - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

marco5 · #1 03-20-2018, 08:54 PM

Hello,

I thought I'd make a post here about the real and true cost of owning an older Mercedes diesel. Anything 1986 and prior is now 32+ years old and the ownership costs is going up, as the parts are getting more rare and expensive. All dealership OEM parts have gone up. That darn monovalve is now $110! I want to make this clear though, if you find yourself a decent Benz which is mostly rust free and that has been maintained overall, the cost of ownership is still significantly less then a leased/used car, never mind brand new. I'll put some basic figures below for you.

Model: 1985 Mercedes 300D Turbo Diesel from NY

Inspiration: First car was a Mercedes 300E, rusted to heck but drove better then any other car I've ever been in. I started following the forums and reading amazing posts like Squiggle Dog restoration (Please don't sell your car squiggle!). People like him inspired me to buy one.

Purchase Price: $5000 (yes expensive but 0 rust which is rare in Canada)

Maintenance Cost: (Canadian)

2016: $569.71 CAD
2017: $6571.80 CAD
2018 total: $1693.32 CAD and counting!

I'm guessing that between this year and next, I will drop about 4-5k finishing off literally everything that could be replaced or rebuilt (minus the engine and transmission which don't need it). Data to follow below. With these cars, you will have months that are expensive sure, however, if you tackle it in a well organized fashion with a budget, you can slowly restore one of these beautiful pieces of over engineering that the world will never see again for a darn good price! Who wants to drive a new ford with echo boost anyway? Or those silly new fully loaded dodge pickup trucks for 65k. So dumb.

1985 Mercedes 300D Maintenance Costs Total Parts Total Labor Total with tax

2016
Aug-16
Aug 11 -German Auto Kitchener - Oil Change & Brake Fluid Flush (dot4) $149.19 $69.99 $239.76
Month Total $239.76

Oct-16
Krown Rustproofing $119.95 $135.54
Month Total $135.54

Dec-16
Dec 2 - German Auto - Oil Lube Service & Air Filter $150.99 $170.68
Dec 5 - German Auto - Replace Washer Check Valve and repair plastic lines $23.73 $23.73
Month Total $194.41

2017
Jan-17
Jan 5th - Mercedes Benz Burlington - 4 Serpentine Belt and pre-fuel Filter $54.61 $54.61
Jan 7th - Fairview tire and auto - install 4 OEM serpentine belts $189.84 $189.84
Jan 18th - German Auto - Front right wheel bearing, water pump, upper rad hose, theromstat and anti-freeze flush OEM Parts $388.77 $489.96 $992.96
Jan 26th - Rebuild 2 front calipers by John and Stewart Brake Hamilton $240 $240
Jan 26th - 2 brake flex lines, dot 4 brake fluid and other shop supplies (A&A Auto Parts) $60 $60
Month Total $1,537.41

Feb-17
Feb 16 - Front Left Wheel Beating - OEM - German Auto $337.29 $337.29
Feb 17 - 5 Injector Nozzles & Heat Shields - Mercedes Benz Burlignton $254.82 $254.82
Feb 24 - A&A Auto, Oil Filter (Mann), Oil Liqui Molly (5w40), Fuel Injector Cleaner, Gloves, O ring $119.38 $119.38
Month Total $711.49

Mar-17
March 16 - Mercedes Benz Burlington - passenger headlight cover, 2 rear sway bar links $146.31 $146.31
Month Total: $146.31 $146.31

Apr-17
April 3 - Walmart - Purchase 2 wipers (rainx brand) $25 $25
April 4 - Mercedes Benz Burlington - Purchase 4 throttle linking ball joints $38.69 $38.69
April 18 - Autopartsway.ca - 2 Upper Control Arms (Lemforder) & 4 Upper Outer Bushings (FEBI) (installed myself) $191.18 $191.18
Month Total: $254.87

May-17
May 25th - German Auto - Oil change, injector leak repair, turbo boost repair $198.88 $198.88
May 29th - Autopartsway.ca - 2 front rotor, 2 pads, 2 lemforder engine mounts $188.97 $188.97
Month Total: $387.85

Jun-17
June 6 - Mercedes Benz Burlington - 2 diff output seals axle ends $35.12 $35.12
June 13 - Jay's Auto Service Waterdown - 2 rear diff seals, 2 new axles, diff fluid and reseal $491.93 $450 $941.93
June 16th - Active Green and Ross Fennel - 2 new front tires and full alignment $245.18 $245.18
Month Total: $1,222.23

17-Jul
July 6 - Injectors pop cleaned, pop tested, set to 135 BAR, new OEM heat shields, torqued down to spec $222.21 $222.21
July 15 - Valve Adjustment completed - no cost - dealership allowed to use wrenches $0
July 18 - AutoPartsWay.ca - Air Filter Bracket, Air Filter Rubber Mount x3, injector heat shieldx3, MANN Air filter $110.69 $110.69
July 27 - Jay's Auto Service Waterdown - replace rear right axle as it failed and leaking - no cost (Warranty) $0.00 $0.00
Month Total: $332.90

Aug-17
August 3 - autopartsway.ca, Rear Brakes - zimmerman rear rotors x2, pagid rear brake pads $125.16* $125.16
August 3 - install air filter housing bracket, install MANN air filter and rubber mounts $0.00 $0.00 $0
August 4 - JK Auto Repair Kitchener - Install rear brake rotor and pads $100.00 $100
August 4 - German Auto - Oil Change $127.11 $127.11
August 5 - Victoria Star Motors - new sunroof clip, 3 heat shields for air filter housing mounts $54.82 $54.82
August 5 - Install heat shields on rubber mounts for air cleaner bracker $0.00 $0.00
Month Total: $407.09

Oct-17
October 1 - Replace broken boost cables, install 2 turbo sleeve seals, install boost cable, bypass valve $30 $30
October 12 - add 1L oil 15W40, repair A/C bolts (coming out and hitting belt) $50 $50
October 22 - Krown Rust Protection $104.24 $104.24
October 24 - Oil change - Liqui Molly 5W40 - MANN Filter- A&A Auto Parts, replaced 2 smaller seals on oil filter $96.54 $96.54
Month Total: $280.78

Nov-17
Nov 7 - autopartswaysite - Radiator (Spectra Premium), Lower Rad Hose, Rad cap, Power Steering Filters $228 $228
Nov 11 - Purchase 4 winter tires, install, have balanced $300 $300
Nov 22 - Send $100 to kijiji guy - 4 OEM rims, sunroof parts, brake booster, eletrical clip $100 $100
Nov 23 - Replace radiator, lower rad hose, water pump, MB antifreeze, replace boost cable (Prestige Auto) $391.68 $391.68
Month Total: $1,019.68

Dec-17
Dec 13 - Purchase Battery - MotoMaster Eliminator Ultra - AGM, install battery bracket (OEM) $271.19 $271.19
Month Total: $271.19

2018
Jan-18
Jan 6 - Oil Change - MB Oakville $129.63 $129.63
Jan 10 - pelicanparts.com - monovalve, brake booster line, 1 hella headlights with conversion kit, sunroof seal front $251.04 $251.04
Jan 17 - German Auto - Transmission Service - Filter + Fluid + Torque Converter $300.63
Month Total $681.30

Feb-18
February 16 - Oil Change - Victoria Star Motors $149.09 $149.09
Month Total $149.09

Mar-18
March 15 - pelicanparts.com - headlight cover, hella headlight kit, engine shocks/mount, mount kitx2, oil drain tube set, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, 2 oil cooler lines $544.76 $862.93
Month Total $862.93

Father Of Giants · #2 03-20-2018, 09:09 PM

My 86 300SDL is pricey to maintain. Thinking about getting a W124 and a W201 chassis in good condition, they are a lot cheaper to own, and their market value is at rock bottom prices. A suspension rebuild on the W124/W201 is pricey. But on a W126, it's heart stopping.

As the years go on, cost of ownership keeps going down, and eventually flatlines into preventative maintenance. I'm still ironing out the kinks in my SDL.

Will probably get a parts car to accommodate the W201/W124 and frequent the junkyard too. While the SDL sits and gets slowly restored.

It's great that people on these forums are actively keeping these pieces of automotive history on the road or even taking it a step further and restoring them.

ah-kay · #3 03-20-2018, 10:39 PM

How can you justify dumping $6500 on a $5000 car in one year? It doesn't make sense. I spend much less than that to maintain 4 daily drivers, that is including insurance and licenses.

Rogviler · #4 03-20-2018, 10:46 PM

Seems like a big part of it is whether you do the work yourself or not. If I had to pay someone to work on my car I would've rolled it into the woods to rot by now.

On the other hand, I kind of envy not having to roll around in the dirt several times a year.

-Rog

Diseasel300 · #5 03-20-2018, 11:36 PM

The TCO of these cars is one of the reasons they're firmly in DIY territory. I've done WAY more things to my SDL and I'm not even close to the purchase price of your car (including the purchase price of my car). If I'd paid a shop to do all the work to my car, I'd have easily passed you by.

The cheapest way to keep these cars going is to keep up with maintenance. Let it lapse and things get expensive quick and you can get stuck in a neverending loop of repairs. Keep up on maintenance and they're surprisingly reliable. They don't like being ignored.

Don't take shortcuts, don't use cheap materials, and don't "kick the can" when something goes wrong. False economy will cost you more in the long run because you'll have to do the job again sooner rather than later.

In all fairness, my SDL has been surprisingly cheap to keep on the road. The SL on the other hand seems to break down every time it goes out. Other than occasionally fiddling with something (mainly due to me being a perfectionist, not because something actually requires fiddling), the SDL doesn't seem to really require anymore time/effort/money to maintain than my Honda does. Mainly just fluids and filters.

Shern · #6 03-21-2018, 02:39 AM

I can relate to this... Since buying the car two years ago, the only things I *had to do* were to:

replace the belts,
change the ignition tumbler,
replace a rear axle and
replace a clutch master cylinder push rod.

The things I have done, because I wanted to and because I'm slowly sinking into a fog of obsession, were:

a complete drive line refurb (flex discs, center bearing, mounts, etc)
many, many misc trim restorations,
h4 upgrade
new injectors
just about every hose and gasket in sight
vacuum fittings, misc actuators
power steering pump rebuild
4 new shocks
coco mats (worth it in the end)
glow plugs
new ceramic fuses
windshield fluid pump
primer pump
throttle linkages refurb
cluster restoration/maintenance
fuel sender rebuild

Oh, and tools. Endless tools.

And that's just what comes to mind... I learned to perform all of this work myself with the invaluable help of this forum. The only things I paid for were a couple of valve adjustments which served more to teach me about the unknown unknowns through the general inspection at the end. If I'd had to pay for service, however, oooof... think I'd have just bought a new car. On the other hand, it's been wonderful life experience and I do look forward to wrenching whenever a project comes along/I synthesize a crisis.

marco5 · #7 03-21-2018, 09:02 AM

Thanks for the replies! Forgot to mention that I drive 200KM per day (48,000KM/year or 30,000miles per year), so my maintenance is a little more then others. Don't get me wrong, I do a lot of the small stuff myself including air filters, fuel filters, brake boost cables, brake jobs, interior pieces, gaskets, air filter brackets etc. However, when it comes to stuff that requires specific tools especially when the bolt is seized, not worth my time or headache.

For example, as you can see above, I did my upper control arms and the bolt was seized to the control arm. Guess how long that took me (with using a friends hoist) to cut off and properly get them replaced and installed? 4+ hours. Yeah. Next time I'll pay someone 1.5 hours labor to do it.

Cost wise, yeah last year was expensive but look what was done. This year I plan to invest about 3-5 but then most things will be done which will carry me on for years. Like I said, still way less expensive then some 7 year old 10-15k used Honda that's going to be driven in to the ground. I'd rather walk then drive those cars.

97 SL320 · #8 03-21-2018, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

How can you justify dumping $6500 on a $5000 car in one year? It doesn't make sense. I spend much less than that to maintain 4 daily drivers, that is including insurance and licenses.

Because he apparently likes the car?

What a car is " worth " on the open market matters little once it is over 10 years old. I typically pay $ 500 for sub 15 year old, 125 K ish mile, non rusty cars that are majorly broken. I think nothing of installing $ 3,500 in _parts_ then going another 100 K with normal maint. Sure, I've spent much more $ than the car is " worth " but I'm way under the cost of a new car.

Think about this, I can own a car for way less than the depreciation of a new one.

vonsmog · #9 03-21-2018, 09:50 AM

For what you have into your one car I have restored two at half the cost! You need to do all the repairs yourself in order to make this a wise choice of ownership! Both my cars are now worth over $20k each, but If I had to pay someone else to do all the work, I would almost be into 6 figures on them.

OM617YOTA · #10 03-21-2018, 10:02 AM

It's no secret that these aren't the best option if one's goal is basic inexpensive transportation. To make sense to keep one of these, you really have to like it.

This is true of most transportation options.

marco5 · #11 03-21-2018, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vonsmog

For what you have into your one car I have restored two at half the cost! You need to do all the repairs yourself in order to make this a wise choice of ownership! Both my cars are now worth over $20k each, but If I had to pay someone else to do all the work, I would almost be into 6 figures on them.

Wow Vonsmog! Your cars are gorgeous, literally showroom condition level. I'm in a condo and don't have the same luxury but I'm willing and aware that the maintenance cost, of taking it to a shop instead of doing some things myself. I don't mind spending a few thousand a year to drive my car and consider the mileage I do!

Just curious vons, where do you source your parts for the TD? Could you give me a breakdown of things/costs you've done just so I can compare? Do you source parts at salvage yards to keep overall costs down?

MongooseGA · #12 03-21-2018, 10:33 AM

When I first bought my 300D, the only thing I had to do was replace the battery, fuel filters, and fiddle with the Bowden cables.

I don't want to say what I've spent on it in the last year. Complete cooling system (rad,hoses, fan clutch, exp tank, thermostat), complete brake system(rubber lines, front calipers, all pads and rotors), transmission rebuild, engine mounts, trans mount, diff mount, entire front suspension, entire rear suspension, timing chain, valve adjustment, oil cooler lines, AC lines, steeing coupler, injection pump rebuild, wheel bearings, monovalve delete, new exterior trim, tires, refinished wheels, repaired window regulator slides... I'm sure a bunch more. A lot of it I did myself but the big or very technical jobs I had done. Of course, labor isn't cheap!

I could have bought a very well sorted R129 SL600 by now. Like, a nice one. I could have put the money into Bitcoin at the beginning of the year and have well over 6 figures from that alone.

But, of all of the really cool cars of all types that I've owned, my W123 is my absolute favorite. I've never had a car people chase me down in to wave and give a thumbs up. I'm constantly amazed how much attention it gets.

Junkman · #13 03-21-2018, 11:11 AM

Nah, these cars are cheap......if you don't do anything to them and consider good nuf to be starting (usually) and don't care about things like suspension, tires & brakes.

If you want them to drive like a Mercedes, then you need to over come all of the deferred maintenance from the PO who "only needed tires and oil".

ah-kay · #14 03-21-2018, 12:24 PM

The OP is about $12k into a 1985 car and counting. It is not my money but the money spent is not the norm here. You can get a reasonable worry free later model car for the same money. I treat my Mbz as disposable cars and I would push it off the cliff if I had to spend more than what I perceive it worths. That is why I join the forum to DIY to challenge myself.

marco5 · #15 03-21-2018, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

The OP is about $12k into a 1985 car and counting. It is not my money but the money spent is not the norm here. You can get a reasonable worry free later model car for the same money. I treat my Mbz as disposable cars and I would push it off the cliff if I had to spend more than what I perceive it worths. That is why I join the forum to DIY to challenge myself.

I don't treat anything I own as just disposable so perhaps we have different goals, as mine is to restore to original factory quality and condition as I plan to keep the car as long as I live. It sure beats buying a used Honda Civic for $15k, and having the enjoyment of changing my oil at Jiffy Lube. I'm a HUGE Mercedes-Benz enthusiast.

I source all my parts new and I replace with OEM/Mercedes parts only (if available). Right off the bat, I'm spending more money because of this. I see various posts where some of you source a good used part for a wreckers for 1/10 the cost of it new, which is great and amazing! I don't have the space nor time to do this however. Labor wise, added all up is about $2300 ($1774 USD) taxes in. For all of the work that I've had done for that amount, it is well worth it in my situation. I understand many of you have a house, farm, garage that I do not have the luxury of. In my opinion, being $12,000 ($9200USD) in and having a nearly fully restored vehicle is completely worth it.