Parallel flow consenser oil - w123? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leathermang · #16 07-18-2016, 03:48 PM

I am worried about the suggestion to ' fill the condensor' .... aside from the amount of oil.... I am concerned with the possibility of excess pressure needed ( or backed up as load on compressor )...to initially push that oil on downstream..... the condensor typically has half vapor and half liquid refrigerant going through it.... not a high viscosity slug of oil .....
So however much oil the makers of the condensor say to add... great.... as long as it does not violate your total you have determined you will need ( plus new receiver )...

Demothen · #17 07-18-2016, 03:58 PM

Leathermang,
Actually, I misinterpretted the FSM - I thought it wanted you to fill each part as you replaced them, but I think it means to add that amount of oil to the system - not necessarily to the part being replaced. The condenser manufacturer (well, kit assembler) said to add oil to the drier, which I think makes sense.

leathermang · #18 07-18-2016, 04:07 PM

Yes, that does make sense.... but if the maker of your new condensor had sent directions saying add a certain amount ( not fill ) to it they might have a reason... the FSM is not easy to read... it has scattered info about things and was not written by a native English speaker and often assumes perhaps factory training knowledge sometimes.. augmenting with the Haynes manual is sometimes helpful ... particularly for pictures... but only the MB FSM has all the warnings.....

BillGrissom · #19 07-18-2016, 04:10 PM

They are just telling you to get the total volume of oil correct. Best if it stayed in the compressor. There is no advantage for it to go elsewhere, indeed it lowers the heat transfer, but can't stop it from moving. PAO 68 is supposed to stay in the compressor better, which makes it more efficient.

leathermang · #20 07-18-2016, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

They are just telling you to get the total volume of oil correct. Best if it stayed in the compressor. There is no advantage for it to go elsewhere, indeed it lowers the heat transfer, but can't stop it from moving. PAO 68 is supposed to stay in the compressor better, which makes it more efficient.

Bill.... I think we are talking about an R4 compressor... thus NO OIL SUMP.. and the most critical factor is the ability of the refrigerant to carry the oil around the system mixed into the refrigerant...

Can you promise that the PAO 68 you are suggesting is better for THAT... or just better (? proof ) in not mixing with moisture and creating acid ?

funola · #21 07-18-2016, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I am worried about the suggestion to ' fill the condensor' .... aside from the amount of oil.... I am concerned with the possibility of excess pressure needed ( or backed up as load on compressor )...to initially push that oil on downstream..... the condensor typically has half vapor and half liquid refrigerant going through it.... not a high viscosity slug of oil .....
So however much oil the makers of the condensor say to add... great.... as long as it does not violate your total you have determined you will need ( plus new receiver )...

You like to attack forum members with "What is obvious is that your critical reading skills are lacking".

You can apply it to yourself in this instance.

I wrote: "Fill the condensers with oil. make sure no bubbles, pour oil into measuring cup." in response to Demothen: "I have no idea the volume of the old condenser vs the new.

Filling the condensers with oil and then pouring it into a measuring cup is a way to measure the volume of his old condenser vs the PF condenser.

You chose to quote only "Fill the condensers with oil" leaving out the rest of the pertinent info and then want to know if that is a good idea.

leathermang · #22 07-18-2016, 10:52 PM

Why would you use oil for that procedure ?
with all the surface area of the tubes in the condsensor.... which the oil would adhere to ?
Why not AC flush, or water or Acetone for that... ?
I did not catch that that was the meaning of your writing because it was not a logical action.

funola · #23 07-18-2016, 11:04 PM

Why use oil? Because that's the least amount of work, since there is already oil in the old condenser. Let it drain in the hot sun, most of it will come out. Acetone and flush agent evaporates too fast, not good if you want to measure it. Water would work, but then you have to flush it afterwards- more work.

Demothen · #24 07-18-2016, 11:09 PM

This is all a moot point.
The condenser is installed.
Even if i knew the volume difference between the condensers, there is no way to know thar it would scale the oil quantity. With different refridgerent flow paths, there is no way to know how much the new condenser would retain.
Ultimately I chose to use the same quantity as the FSM calls for. I will be adding it to the drier when I am ready to charge the system, unfortunately that will probably be next week since I am waiting on pressure test equipment to get here.

leathermang · #25 07-18-2016, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

You like to attack forum members with "What is obvious is that your critical reading skills are lacking".

You can apply it to yourself in this instance.

I wrote: "Fill the condensers with oil. make sure no bubbles, pour oil into measuring cup." in response to Demothen: "I have no idea the volume of the old condenser vs the new.

Filling the condensers with oil and then pouring it into a measuring cup is a way to measure the volume of his old condenser vs the PF condenser.

You chose to quote only "Fill the condensers with oil" leaving out the rest of the pertinent info and then want to know if that is a good idea.

First you describe it like you are filling it and measuring it out into a measuring cup... Now you talk like you are titrating it into the condenser, and can leave it ... but that goes back to my concern about the viscous liquid filling the condenser and the load on the compressor...

""Why use oil? Because that's the least amount of work, since there is already oil in the old condenser. Let it drain in the hot sun, most of it will come out. Acetone and flush agent evaporates too fast, not good if you want to measure it. Water would work, but then you have to flush it afterwards- more work. "" Funola

Due to the zigzag route in the condenser you can not just let it drain out... you have to keep turning it.. and once again.. the oil is not suitable for this method of determining the volume ... so oil is not correct on any level. You can force the flush or acetone out with pressure ....and it does not evaporate so fast that you can not judge close enough for this job...

leathermang · #26 07-18-2016, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demothen

This is all a moot point. .....

It is now for your project... but for future reference in the archives.. perhaps not.

funola · #27 07-18-2016, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demothen

This is all a moot point.
The condenser is installed.
Even if i knew the volume difference between the condensers, there is no way to know thar it would scale the oil quantity. With different refridgerent flow paths, there is no way to know how much the new condenser would retain.
Ultimately I chose to use the same quantity as the FSM calls for. I will be adding it to the drier when I am ready to charge the system, unfortunately that will probably be next week since I am waiting on pressure test equipment to get here.

Did Klima provide any guidance/ recommendation on adjusting the amount of oil/ refrigerant with their PF condenser?

Demothen · #28 07-18-2016, 11:30 PM

Arguements about irrelavant facts dont help anyone in the future either. Instead of arguing about every single thing, it would he helpful if people kept on topic, so that some of the information about the AC system was actually concise for a change.

Demothen · #29 07-18-2016, 11:35 PM

They said that some people chose to measure what came out of the old consenser, then that amount could be added to the new drier. I guess that would imply that the oil charge for an initial fill would be the same as the FSM fill amount added when replacing the consenser. That didn't occur to me at the time.
I dont have that figure handy, but it is specified somewhere in the FSM.

leathermang · #30 07-18-2016, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demothen

Arguements about irrelavant facts dont help anyone in the future either. Instead of arguing about every single thing, it would he helpful if people kept on topic, so that some of the information about the AC system was actually concise for a change.

You have been here since Nov of last year... LOL
How many PM's have gone back and forth between you and I on this project ?
"Irrelevant" is something which can not be determined for someone else with less experience...