W210 compressor seized - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

jay_bob · #1 04-28-2016, 10:08 PM

Well my compressor grenaded last night on the way home from the airport. It was blowing nice and cold and all of a sudden got warmer and warmer.

Got home pulled the codes it was B1419 electromagnetic clutch failure. After some searching figured out that was the seized compressor protection - if the compressor seizes the thermal fuse blows and releases the clutch and sets the code in the CCU.

So I went out this evening and tried to spin the hub. No joy, locked up tighter than

Went over to the 124 and double checked I was grabbing the right thing, sure enough that was it.

Pricing up a bill of materials now
Compressor
Condenser
Evaporator (pretty sure it was leaking)
Expansion Valve
Receiver dryer and the temperature and pressure sensors
O-rings

Any suggestions or hints on the job? I have a non travel week coming up in a couple weeks so I plan to take off that week to fix it.

I have watched the you tube video by the guy in Taiwan tearing out the dash/front cowling for the 210 and this does not intimidate me at all. I have had it about halfway apart before and the thing goes together like a giant 3D puzzle. Looks to be a lot cleaner than a 124 dash which I can do in my sleep.

ESchwab · #2 04-28-2016, 11:15 PM

The evaporator alone is a big job, because you have to remove the dash board and console to get to the evaporator. Mine went bad 5 or 6 years ago. At that time there were two or three You Tube videos that show how to do this job. It can be done as a DIY project but would likely take a couple of days. MB dealers charge for 21 or 22 hours of labor to do the job. My car is a '98 E300td.

I was 71 or 72 at the time so I paid to have it done. Cost for the job was $3,000. I got a $2,000 estimate from a shop in Syracuse, NY (my son lives there), but would have had to drive 300 miles to take advantage of it. I had my compressor changed by a dealer last year at a cost of $1,700 to install an MB rebuilt.

A Mercedes is not a Mercedes if the air conditioning does not work, at least here in northern Virginia.

tjts1 · #3 04-28-2016, 11:54 PM

Before you replace the compressor pull the fan and go in there with a good flash light and check that there is a gap between the clutch and the pulley. Or remove the belt and try spinning the pulley and see if the clutch spins with it. It could be that just the clutch is stuck and the compressor behind it is fine. Its a lot easier/cheaper to replace a clutch instead of a compressor. The clutch thermal fuse is a weak point in the system and can fail at any time even if the compressor is fine. Also from my experience it takes a lot more force to spin a w210 compressor than a w124 compressor. It's a completely different design.

jay_bob · #4 04-29-2016, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Before you replace the compressor pull the fan and go in there with a good flash light and check that there is a gap between the clutch and the pulley. Or remove the belt and try spinning the pulley and see if the clutch spins with it. It could be that just the clutch is stuck and the compressor behind it is fine. Its a lot easier/cheaper to replace a clutch instead of a compressor. The clutch thermal fuse is a weak point in the system and can fail at any time even if the compressor is fine. Also from my experience it takes a lot more force to spin a w210 compressor than a w124 compressor. It's a completely different design.

Thanks for the tip but unfortunately I don't think I'm that lucky...

I was able to see that the compressor hub was stationary while the engine was running so it's not a stuck clutch. It is definitely frozen solid internally. I could not even move the 210's hub but the 124's hub (new compressor 3 yrs ago) I could move with one finger.

The system has a charge on it still, so if it was rotating it would be cooling at least a little. Evaporator temperature is intake air plus a degree or two.

The ac has been troublesome since I bought the car so I knew someday this would happen.

jay_bob · #5 04-29-2016, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESchwab

The evaporator alone is a big job, because you have to remove the dash board and console to get to the evaporator. Mine went bad 5 or 6 years ago. At that time there were two or three You Tube videos that show how to do this job. It can be done as a DIY project but would likely take a couple of days. MB dealers charge for 21 or 22 hours of labor to do the job. My car is a '98 E300td.

I was 71 or 72 at the time so I paid to have it done. Cost for the job was $3,000. I got a $2,000 estimate from a shop in Syracuse, NY (my son lives there), but would have had to drive 300 miles to take advantage of it. I had my compressor changed by a dealer last year at a cost of $1,700 to install an MB rebuilt.

A Mercedes is not a Mercedes if the air conditioning does not work, at least here in northern Virginia.

I now have the parts on order they will be arriving the 10th. Taking the week of the 16th for vacation to rebuild the ac.

In SC it's not a convenience, it's survival. Not only for the heat, but when it storms, you have to be able to get the dew point down in the car, or you will not be able to see out the windows.

Not to mention the mind numbing turbulence with the windows open at speed.
I have BTDT before, had a brand new 92 Accord with an infant failure of the ac compressor clutch relay. In Louisiana in June on a Saturday. Had to drive all the way back to Atlanta with the windows open.

Luckily I will just be going to the airport 3 times between now and the 16th so I will just have to suck it up on those trips. Most of them are first flight out in the morning so it will still be tolerable outside...

jay_bob · #6 05-02-2016, 10:27 AM

Parts will start coming in this week...

I noticed that somehow my under hood label for the quantity of charge is missing.

Anyone have the specs or a photo of their label - 210.025 98 E300D

Thanks

jay_bob · #7 05-04-2016, 01:26 PM

In my searching online, I have seen references to the charge amount being 1 kg or 2.2 lb.

Can someone confirm this?

Also need specs on the oil type, and quantity required.

I am pulling this system completely apart and want to do it right.

oldiesel · #8 05-04-2016, 02:28 PM

1 kg is the amount on the label of our 97 e300d,cant be sure the 98 is the same but i would expect it to be. Cant help with the oil specs. Don

jay_bob · #9 05-16-2016, 11:05 PM

I now have all the parts in hand.

I plan to start tomorrow with the engine bay work.

Will be keeping you updated.

I did find a copy of the WIS for compressor replacement and one for oil quantity.

PAG46 oil required.

120 ml in the compressor
20 ml in the condenser
40 ml in the evaporator
10 ml in the dryer
20 ml in suction line
20 ml in pressure line
That is 230 ml or 7.75 fluid ounces.

Plan for tomorrow is to get the compressor, condenser and lines out, new compressor and condenser in, lines flushed and reinstalled. Then start on the dash Wednesday.

I have one more plot twist, the inside blower motor quit. This car already has the updated blower with the "porcupine" regulator. I was able to get the motor to run by spinning the shaft, so I suspected worn brushes. With my video borescope I was able to look up in the motor and confirm the brushes are worn. Looks like the commutator is still ok though.
I was also able to connect an ohm meter to the motor terminals and sure enough I had megohms of resistance until I turned the shaft to just the right place and it dropped to 2 ohms when the brushes made contact.

Regulator is good - it steps the motor voltage up from 0 to 12 volts as I raise the fan speed. The reference voltage from the control head is 0 to 6 V so the motor voltage is double the reference voltage.

There are a couple of motor shops in Columbia, I will be calling them in the morning to see if they can fix it. The motor end housing is lightly crimped but looks like it can be opened easily with the right tools. The motor can be easily removed from the support frame (3 plastic tabs and one T15 screw) and the blower wheel driven off the motor shaft - I used a center punch while supporting the edges of the wheel on one of my wife's empty flower pots.

Zulfiqar · #10 05-17-2016, 11:44 AM

before you rip apart the unit make sure your car has the updated condenser to drier hose, the new driers wont fit the old hose.

jay_bob · #11 05-18-2016, 11:22 AM

Thanks Z I ordered one yesterday

I went to the motor shop and they were able to disassemble the motor but the brushes had worn down to nothing and had eaten the commutator.

So I ordered a new motor also yesterday from da bird.

Got the condenser and compressor installed yesterday.

Also removed and flushed the two lines connected to the compressor. The dryer to expansion valve winds around the fuse box and master cylinder so that one got flushed in place.

I had to perform major disassembly to easily reach everything:
Lower pans (duh)
Washer tank
Front wheels off and car on stands
Wheel well liners
Front bumper cover
Left front headlight
Inter cooler, the rubber intake line on the passenger side, and the rubber line and riser pipe on the drivers side
Intake manifold
All the trim below the windshield
The windshield wiper motor

There was a bunch of leaves and gunk down in the trough there and the central drain was clogged. I would recommend everyone with a W210 open that area up and clean it out.

If you buy the compressor kit from the (stone) auto place beware that the discharge manifold from your existing compressor must be swapped over or the line will not fit. Edit: also do not use the new line securing bolts that came with the compressor, they are too long!!! They are the right length for the shipping caps but not for the line flanges. Save and reuse your existing (shorter) line bolts.

I unpacked the compressor, turned it over a plastic tub and spun it. Not a drop of oil came out. So I added the 120 ml of oil per the WIS. The only precision measuring tool I had was a squeeze bulb dropper that you use to give a baby medicine that we have been hanging onto for the last 21 years. It only went to 5 ml so I had to do 24 shots of oil into the compressor...

***** Edit: this is wrong! see later posts on page 2 regarding draining the shipping oil out of the compressor. *****

They give you rubber plugs to seal the openings back up so that when you insert the compressor into the engine bay through the LCA opening the oil won't spill out. It is much easier to bolt in this compressor than a 124, and way easier than on a 123, I have done both before. 3 x 13 mm bolts that are easily accessible once you get the intake pipe out of the way.

Removing the intake manifold made it a breeze to hook the compressor lines up. Yes you could do it with wobble sockets but take 10 min to pull the manifold, it will pay for itself in time savings.

Edit: you don't need to pull the manifold to access the compressor but you will have to remove the manifold if you want to remove the suction line to properly flush it. It is bolted in below the manifold and impossible to access without removing the manifold.

Today I need to finish putting what I can together in the front, get the car back on the ground, and start on the interior disassembly.

The Chinese condenser fit well, the only thing to watch out for is you have to transfer over all the grommets and spacers from your old condenser. And be sure when putting the new one in that the shroud pins get seated correctly in the lower radiator support or you will have to take the condenser loose again to correct this when you are trying to reinstall the intercooler.

The removable upper cross member makes removing the condenser easy. No need to remove the radiator.

jay_bob · #12 05-22-2016, 01:40 PM

I cross threaded the pressure sensor into the dryer

So the new parts are on order and will be here Friday.

Now the rest of the story...

Got the front end reassembled and moved on to the interior. Took me two days to disassemble, replace evaporator, and reassemble.

Pics of the carnage...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5f57dt75drumbc/2016-05-19%2009.21.45.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/atp58cs35nkr20w/2016-05-19%2012.22.17.jpg?dl=0

I got it all back together Friday afternoon with zero parts left over...dash is tighter than it was before and the car is noticeably quieter. Probably some of the fasteners, particularly into the vinyl/composite material, had compressed the material and worked loose.

Dash cover is way easier to remove than a 124...about the same amount of fasteners but it is much more assembly friendly. It is like playing with Legos or putting together IKEA furniture, it only goes together one way and it is usually totally obvious if you look for the attachment features.

I won't bore you with all the details, if you really want to take this on have a look at the you tube frame by frame and it shows the steps. I kept my iPad at hand and followed along.

A couple good to know points:
- very first thing, run both front seats all the way down and all the way back, and the steering wheel out and down all the way. Be sure the front wheels are absolutely set dead straight ahead. Put the key in, turn it on, shift to neutral, pull the ash tray, back in park, and then disconnect the battery. Do not unplug anything else but the ash tray light or the console switches with the battery connected. Especially not the air bags. Otherwise you will set fault codes that cannot be cleared with an OBDII, they must be cleared through the 38 pin plug with Xentry.

- The harnesses are wrapped in sticky black cloth tape that will leave black marks everywhere. Watch your hands on the headliner, carpet, door panels, seats, etc.

- definitely wear work gloves, lots of sharp things back there.

- take good photos along the way, I should have. I had to go back to the two photos I linked to figure out some of the wire harness routing and wish I had taken better pictures. The harnesses must go back exactly the way they came out or later parts won't fit. Especially the mother harness that feeds the key switch and center stack.

- If you have taken apart a 124 or earlier you will be blown away at how much less wiring there is than the old models. Everything is on a data bus and for example the window switches run on a half dozen 22 gauge wires instead of the two dozen 12 gauge like on the 123/124/126.

- when you get to the evaporator box you will have to remove the vacuum lines to the actuators. Pull firmly straight up to release the plug in connectors. Be careful not to put stress on the neck where the hose attaches. The hoses are so well laid out and so springy that they will pretty much self route back to where they belong. On the dual pot actuators the red hose goes with the blue actuator.

- my air box drains were completely gone and had crumbled to dust. Lowe's item number 748280 3/4" PVC tubing cut to 5" long works perfectly as a replacement. 1 foot for $1.79. Hit it with a heat gun to slightly soften it, then immediately run cold water from your sink through it to reset the tubing to being straight and round again. The original factory tubes are $25/ea special order if you are a purist. Everyone with a 210 should check these, you are probably leaking condensed water under your carpet.

- with the new blower and new filters and a clean evaporator and heat core the system definitely moves some air. Much better than before. The evaporator and heat core don't get nearly as dirty as the 124 and before, this makes me want to find the cowl assembly from a gen II 124 with the cabin filters, and transplant it into my wagon.

- once you have everything together don't forget to burp the cooling system.

- do not reconnect the battery until everything is plugged back in. Except the ash tray and window switches, you cannot do these while it is in park, and you can't get it out of park with no battery. You will need to set the clock, put the radio cOdE back in, and retrain the windows and sunroof.

Zulfiqar · #13 05-22-2016, 02:58 PM

the compressor has an oil drain bolt - its the large hex right next to the connector, rebuilt/aftermarket compressors are shipped with very light oil in them, you need to fill and drain the compressor to wash out the shipping oil then refill with correct oil charge before installing. If you bought a denso new compressor they come shipped with about 100 ml PAG46 oil in them.

reason to post is that - you may have flooded the compressor with oil if you didnt remove the sump bolt (and if your supplier put some oil in there), this creates a problem with these units - the volume metering device on the suction plate of the compressor will stall and you wont get any pumping even with full 1000 grams charge.

I hope you bought the updated type compressor, its got a smaller volume metering valve and is named as Denso 7SBU16C. The original ones 7SB16C have a design fault where one suction reed fractures from its base plate and siezes the unit

Zulfiqar · #14 05-22-2016, 03:02 PM

btw - its a good idea to have a roll of the original wiring tape handy - its called tesa tape and is available online. I usually use it to mend unwrapping looms on any brand car with it, the fabric tape makes for a very nice repair job and it doesnt make any plastic friction sounds. If you dont have it then silicone self stick tape is the item to choose.

you are 100% right on the simplicity of how the W210 is put together, no wonder its a great taxi vehicle.

engatwork · #15 05-22-2016, 03:32 PM

Thanks for the follow up.