Good afternoon everyone! My name is Will, first post here. I've already learned quite a bit reading around old threads here, but still looking for some advice. If this is in the wrong forum, I apologize in advance and hope someone will move it for me.

Skip down to the bottom for the TL;DR.

Before I start, just some quick info about myself. I've noticed there are lots of international people around here, so just to clarify, I'm in the 'States. North Carolina to be specific. Young guy, mechanical engineer, and plenty able to work on things myself. I've built the motor, transmission, and rear end in my supercharged Mustang. Also have rebuilt the engine in my daily driver, an '01 Honda Civic. The point of all this, is that I'm quite capable of working on something. That said, I don't like doing it all the time, and hence why I'm here.

I'm looking to replace my current daily driver, a manual transmission 2001 Civic. I've had it for many years now, but with almost 350,000 miles on the clock, it's getting to the point where it seems like I'm working on it every few weeks. Combine that with the fact that it is so unbelievably boring to drive, and that I'm no longer a broke college student, and I'm just ready to move on.

Some more info about me: I drive around 30,000 miles a year to and from work. Literally 95% of the drive is interstate, where I ride at 70 mph with the cruise control on. To keep my yearly fuel costs down, highway fuel economy is very important to me; my goal so far when looking at a new ride has been at least 30 mpg on the highway. I have been impressed with my Honda concerning fuel mileage and overall cost to operate, and after looking at lots of different cars, I decided on getting a 2006-2007 Honda Accord, 4 door, V6, with 6-speed manual. It hits the 30 mpg highway check box, pretty roomy inside, has a nice 240 horsepower, and a nice transmission. Also, at roughly a $7000 price tag, the depreciation won't kill me on it either.

Still, it's a pretty boring car, without any real 'soul', and $7000 is on the upper limit of what I'm willing to spend for a car being driven 30k-40k miles a year. Regardless, this is the baseline I'm comparing everything to.

Enter Mercedes. I hadn't considered one during my search for a couple of reasons. 1, I'm not a huge fan of German long-term quality (or at least my perception of it). And 2, (kinda related to #1), they aren't available in a manual, or at least are very rare. I plan on driving a DD until it has at least 300,000 miles, and I tend to believe that autos, on a percentage basis, don't hold up for that long nearly as well as a manual does.

BUT, after some first hand accounts and good ole internet research, I've come to decide that a W124 Mercedes may offer what I want in terms of reliability, and whatever it sacrifices in fuel mileage, it should more than make up for in terms of a sweet looking ride with a lot of soul, as well as quite a discounted entry price well below the $7000 tag of the Accord. That being said, I still want to make an educated decision.

Assuming gas averages $2.50 a gallon over the next 3-4 years (it's currently $1.50 here, but I'm assuming it'll go up a good bit), the Accord would cost $2500 a year to drive to and from work. If I got 25 mpg from an old gas-burner W124, that yearly cost would be $3000 a year. Assuming I got the Merc for a good bit less than $7000 (which seems very reasonable), that'd be a breakeven point of several years, which I'm perfectly OK with. I'd prefer to go diesel, but it is roughly 25% more expensive here, so I'd need to get roughly 32 mpg from a diesel to equal the driving cost of a gas version (assuming it got 25 on the highway).



So, the TL;DR. What is the best gas model W124 for fuel mileage? Best diesel model for fuel mileage? Are my proposed numbers above possible (25 mpg for gas, 32 for diesel)? What are reasonable numbers I can expect on the highway at 70 mph? Best for reliability (I hear they're all roughly the same, just little quirks here and there)? I'm not particularly keen on the post-facelift models, so I want to keep it prior to 1993 or whenever they changed over. While more power is virtually always better, I'm ok sacrificing some in exchange for fuel economy.

From my reading, it looks like my best gas bet is a 260E or 300E 2.6, and my best bet with a diesel is the 90-93 300D with the turbo 2.5. Opinions?

Is $3000 going to get a decent gas model? $4000 for a decent diesel? Knowing that I plan to keep this and put at least a couple hundred thousand miles on over the coming years, I don't really want anything over 150k miles. Around 100k would be preferable, but I know those are getting rare and I'd have to pay for it.

Also, is it an option / worthwhile to swap a taller geared rear diff from some other model? I'd assume that the V8 models might have taller gears, and swapping those into a I6 or diesel model would potentially help highway fuel economy out quite a bit.

Thanks in advance for the help!

95 E300 (diesel).

I owned one and drove several long trips fully loaded (me+wife+3 kids in the back and all the luggage it would fit). We still got 35mpg.

95 is a one year car, last year of the w124 body, first year of the OM606 in the US. The lack of a turbo (it's a I6, non-turbo, 4 valves per cylinder) might bother you around town, but it flies on the highways.

The 24 gallon tank doesn't hurt either.

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Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

I recondition w123/w126/w124/w140/r107/r129/ steering boxes!


1984 300D "Elsa" odo reset 6/2011 147k
1983 300TD "Mitzi" ~268k OM603 powered
1995 E300 "Adelheid" 262k [Sold]

Wow. Good recommendation.

For whatever reason, I was mixed up on what the post-facelift W124s looked like. I was thinking of the 96 and later models. I don't care for the round headlight look at all. So 93-95 is good.

So it looks like that E300 diesel makes more power and gets better fuel mileage than a 300D 2.5 turbo. Which doesn't entirely surprise me considering 4 valves per cylinder versus 2. Mid 30s from a diesel on the highway is almost the exact same cost to drive as exactly 30 from a gas-burning Accord that I'm comparing all this to. I could definitely get behind that.

I just searched my local Craigslist. There is a '95 E300 Diesel only about 10 miles down the road from me. The best part: it's only got 108k miles, looks to be in great condition overall (at least for a DD), and they're only asking $2900. Think it's worth going to look at? That seems to be a better deal on any of the older turbo 2.5s I've seen on Craigslist so far.

1995 Mercedes E300D low miles

Both the 90-93 300D 2.5 and the 95 E300 are great cars...you would be happy with either. But, all things considered, the 95 is probably the best bet. Other than the biodegradable wiring harness (and of course the leaking evaporator common to all W124's), it really doesn't have a weak spot and will fun forever.

It is truly a buyer's market these days. There's no reason you can't get one in excellent condition with reasonably low miles (say 150k) for $3-4,000. The key things to look for are no rust and a well-documented maintenance history. Be patient and you won't be disappointed.

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14 E250 Bluetec 4Matic "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 156k miles
06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 173k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU
91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver on Tan, 143k mi, wastegate conversion, ALDA delete

19 Honda CR-V EX 67k mi
Fourteen other MB's owned and sold
1961 Very Tolerant Wife

So I replied to the first comment here, but it's "Pending Approval", I'm assuming because I included a link in it.

In summary of what I said there, I mixed up what the post-facelift 94-95 cars looked like. I thought they were the 96 and up look with the round headlights, which I don't like very much at all. 94-95 would definitely be just fine.

95 E300 diesel looks to fit me very nicely. Actually more power than the 2.5 turbo, and way better fuel mileage from what I'm seeing. I suppose 4 valves per cylinder versus 2 tends to do that. Mid 30s mpg in a diesel would be more than acceptable to me. And combined with a nice big tank, I wouldn't be have to fill up every 3-4 days like I do now.

I searched for an E300 diesel on Craigslist, and to my surprise, had one pop up less than 10 miles from me. Is a '95, only 108k miles, looks to be in excellent condition, and they're only asking $2900. Think that's worth going to take a look at?

The only downside of the OM606 over the 2.5L OM602 is the glow plug sticking issue. I'm not saying it would stop me from buying a OM606 if it was in a really clean car, but the OM602 doesn't have that problem. Of course it does have the grenading vacuum pumps... Do the OM606's share the vac pump issue? or did they sort it out by that point?

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2004 F150 4.6L -My Daily
2007 Volvo XC70 -Wife's Daily
1998 Ford F150 -Rear ended
1989 J-spec 420SEL -passed onto its new keeper
1982 BMW 733i -fixed and traded for the 420SEL
2003 Volvo V70 5 Speed -scrapped
1997 E290 Turbo Diesel Wagon -traded for above
1992 BMW 525i -traded in
1990 Silver 300TE -hated the M103
1985 Grey 380SE Diesel Conversion, 2.47 rear end, ABS -Sold, really should have kept this one
1979 Silver 300D "The Silver Slug" -Sold

I get 36 hwy, and 30 city on mine.

Had you considered a W126? Mine is a 1982 300SD but it runs pretty much like new with 186K on the clock.

MPG not as good since longer wheel 23MPG base but not boring to drive at all!

Engine is 5 cylinder and supposed to be one of the better ones. Turbo sounds great.

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1982 300SD

Might want to consider a 190D as well.
I'm about to acquire a 5-speed '84 190D,they commonly net around 40+mpg,BUT they're a) rare and b) lack the power of a 5cyl turbo (unless you get the '87 which is super rare but has the 5cyl turbo engine,om602) The '84 I'm looking at only has ~70hp and ~90ft lbs om601 2.2l 4cyl but makes up for it with the great fuel economy.

And the fact they're veggie friendly is a big plus,I'd personally stay away from the gasser's unless you found a really clean one really cheap.

My two cents

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04 Sprinter 3500 - 320k
84 190D 5spd - 870k
"Ich mag die Dieselgeräusche"
https://youtu.be/YjrxHqNy5CQ
✞

The 190D 2.2L is pretty rare but the 190D 2.5 Turbo is much more rare. I return ~40mpg on the highway at 65mph and mid 30s around town. Acceleration is lacking, but once at speed it's a pleasure. I really appreciate the 5 speed manual transmission. It helps reach the 40s mpg on the highway.

I agree with the 95 W124 if you still want to get a W124. The 606 is better in several ways, but don't turn your nose up at the 300D 2.5 Turbo. In the end, it may be worth it to go with the 2.5 when you consider the commonality of parts and such.

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'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/302601.png
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/sideview.png

I personally like the 87 300D. the OM603 turbo is quite quick. Mileage about 29 on the highway, so you lose a bit from the later 124s. If not this, I would get a car with an OM 602 turbo. I have a 95, and its slow pick up off the line is quite annoying to me. The 700 mile plus range on vacations is nice though.

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1959 Gravely LI, 1963 Gravely L8, 1973 Gravely C12
1982 380SL
1978 450 SEL 6.9 euro restoration at 63% and climbing
1987 300 D
2005 CDI European Delivery
2006 CDI Handed down to daughter
2007 GL CDI. Wifes

A $2900 E300 with 108K miles sounds like it needs TLC... lots of TLC.

Until gsxr chimes in, I'll suggest the 92-95 400E/E420. With it's 2.4x gears, it could get mid 20s with a light steady foot. That's on premium, though. An E320 particularly the 2.8 variety with it's 2.65 gears is another option but it also takes premium. I have no appreciation for KE-Jet. It was obsolete by the '80s and MB really stretched it into the late '80s. I'd walk past a 260E and 300E and keep going.

Be careful swapping longer legs into an older Diesel. The revs might dip into the stall range in high gear and you won't realize mpg benefits.

Sixto
83 300SD

You realize, of course, that you are considering a car that is, at a minimum, 21 years old.

IF mpg is a high priority, then a newer Mercedes should be considered, none of the w124 cars will impress compared to newer cars.

For the W124 gassers, the best mileage ones I've owned were the 86 300E 5 speed manual, the 93 400E, and several 94-95 E320s. All of them would approach 25 +/- mpg on the highway using premium.

For the diesels, I've owned an 87 300TD, a 91 300D 2.5 turbo, and a 95 E300. Best I would ever do with the 87 was 29 highway, the 91 and 95 both would approach 35 on the highway. The wagon had the most power, and neither the 91 nor the 95 impresses off the line. Disregarding the wagon body style (which is a favorite of mine), if I had to pick between the 87, 91 and the 95 as sedans, I'd pick the 95. I'd likely still be driving my 95 if I hadn't fallen in love with an 05 E320 CDI (which does absolutely everything better than any W115, W123 or W124 diesel I've ever owned).

For a daily driver, I'd pass right over the W124 line and look at W210 turbo diesels or the W211 CDI.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking W124s, I've owned a lot of them since 1993, and still have my E320 cabriolet (which I'll be keeping forever.). The newer cars have a lot to offer, and pricewise are not much of a stretch. I recently spent week in Tucson driving around in a nice 85 W123 wagon, and when I got back into town, I got in my CDI at the airport and was once again amazed at how much nicer the CDI is in all respects.


Jim

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14 E250 BlueTEC black. 45k miles
95 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 66k miles
94 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 152k miles
85 300TD 4 spd man, euro bumpers and lights, 15" Pentas dark blue 274k miles

"...1, I'm not a huge fan of German long-term quality (or at least my perception of it)..."

Don't repeat the mistakes of those who gave you that impression of Mercedes. Mercedes made but a few 'bad,' cars but eventually some of the brand fell into the hands of 'bad,' owners.

I'd suggest you go toward the upper limit of your allowance, diligently seek an automobile which has all maintenance documents and thoroughly research the particular model before making your selection.

It appears you've already made a fairly good preliminary search and decided on the model which was the best first move. Good luck.

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84 300SD
85 380SE
83 528e
95 318ic

I have considered it, but I just don't need anything that big. If it were at the same fuel mileage, I'd think about it, but combined with the fuel mileage penalty, I'm going to pass for now.

I hadn't really considered the 190Ds, although it looks like those would be a nice option for me. I'll expand my search for those, too.

A manual would be awesome, but of the looking I've done so far, I haven't seen a single one for sale anywhere in the country.

Yea, I just don't need the extra power, though. The 95 is what, 135 horsepower? And the 90-93 is 125? Not a ton, but enough to move me down the road to and from work, especially if they return better fuel mileage.

Did you see the link? My posts were being funny earlier since they have to be "approved". 1995 Mercedes E300D low miles

I know external shape doesn't dictate mechanical shape, but it certainly looks good from the inside and outside.

I'm seeing other 95s in my area that look to be in similar good condition with <150k miles for $3500-$4000 asking price.

I actually thought about the 400s, but I don't think mid 20s on premium is going to cut it, especially when the Accord (for comparison) can get 30 mpg on regular no problem, and is faster.

I didn't realize that the 6 cylinders require premium, too. In that case, I think my options just got completely narrowed down to a diesel.

Good point about the gearing and the converter. I saw that somewhere, that none of them had lockup converters, and that's a pretty big disappointment. A lockup converter and overdrive would probably pretty easily add 10% on the highway fuel economy for these cars.

Yes, I'm sure a newer car with more power would return better fuel mileage. HOWEVER, I'm looking at total cost to own, which includes purchase price and depreciation. If I can get a 90-95 car for $3000 that gets 30 mpg, it would take 6+ years to break even with a newer car that costs $7000 that gets 40 mpg. Throw in the fact that the newer car is going to depreciate more per year, too, and it's just not economical to spend more than $4-5000.

This isn't even counting the differences in aesthetics. Sure, it's subjective, but I've never cared for the look of MBs after roughly '95, and I think the older ones look awesome. Especially when clean.

My Civic is nowhere near "nice". I'm sure a MB 10 years older is nicer in almost every way compared to what I have now.

That's a very good point, and pretty much why I'm here. I've never had any personal experiences with a German car, but I have many friends who have owned BMWs, VWs, Audis, and MBs over the years. All said and done, EVERY one of them spent LOTS of money working on them, hated them, and sold them for a pretty massive loss. BUT, they were all fairly new cars, maybe 2002-2004 at the oldest, and it seems the older ones have a lot less issues than the newer ones.

What got me turned on to the W124s was a recent afternoon I spent in a '92 (I think) 300E. It was a friend of mines, and we spent all afternoon cruising old dirt logging trails near where I live. We were flying through mud, bouncing through ditches, and literally going airborne over jumps. We did this for hours, all without the slightest of problems and with a smoother ride than any truck I'd traveled these trails on, haha. This guy drives his car just like this ALL the time, and has had it for many years with no issues at all. I would NEVER take my car down trails/roads like this, and he did it all day long without the slightest issue. I haven't laughed so hard in quite some time.

That's when I got to researching these cars online, seeing that they are a little different than the newer German cars that I'm more familiar with. So here I am.



In summary, it's looking to be narrowed down to a 95 E300D, 90-93 300D, or 190D (what year models?), with the slight edge going to the 95 at this point.