I'm willing to accept that a new ac compressor from the dealer is probably better than a rebuilt one, but I'll never pay that kind of money. That leaves the aftermarket rebuilds.

So: can anyone out there really tell me if there is a bona-fide difference between a so-called cheap rebuild and a good one?

I got curious after NAPA wanted around $220 for a GM R4 type used on my 84 300cd. They said they also had a cheaper one, but it was garbage and they really don't like even offering it for sale. I shopped around at Pep Boys, Auto Zone and Advance Autoparts. I finally bought one at Advance as they were almost the cheapest at $148, but they also had the best price on a reciever dryer to go with it.

The unit is made by Factory Air, a subsidiary of Standard Motor parts. I wrote to them asking what the differences were between units like those NAPA sells and the cheaper ones, etc. Here's what they said:

"We are the supplier to both NAPA and Advance, but their pricing structure is
completely their call once we sell them our compressors. There may be a
difference in services offered by each store that make up some of the
difference in price.

I hope this helps a little.

Thanks for your interest in our product."

Robyn Hartwell
Four Seasons
Communications Manager
972-316-8178



Okay, then, with that out in the open, what the hell am I paying for at NAPA or anywhere else, and what's the difference in the rebuilds if everyone buys them from the same place?

-Gil

For what it's worth I had a long conversation recently with a guy who runs an auto A/C service shop about this very topic. For starters he said the overall quality of compressors has gone done since the late 80s/early 90s and it is usual for them to die after 10 years or so depending upon frequency of use. Also, he said that the rebuilts can be pretty bad since some rebuliders either can't get all new parts or use at least some used parts so the rebuilds last even less long. He further went on to say that a good rebuilder will always keep track of returns to make sure that the quality of his rebuilding is good. Anyone who doesn't keep that statistic doesn't care and you don't want to use them. If at all possible when you buy a rebuilt anything ask how many get returned within the first 6 mos to a year. If the number is more than 1 out of 10 or so you may want to keep looking. All this was from a guy who frequently installed rebuilt A/C stuff and guaranteed his work and parts for a year.

__________________
LRG
1987 300D Turbo 175K
2006 Toyota Prius, efficent but no soul
1985 300 TDT(130K miles of trouble free motoring)now sold

Funny, I suspected that overall deteriorating quality was the case.

That's probably not a bad stat to look for (1 in 10 compressors returned within the first six months - sheesh!) but what auto parts store would ever admit to such a crappy track record? How do you know where to look and where to avoid?

What does your friend, the AC pro, suggest? It seems about all you can do is get a rebuild or pay through the nose for a new one.

I'm still wondering, though, what is the difference in the rebuilds coming from the same place, like Factory Air? They all advertise a one year warranty, BTW, IF purchased simultaneously with a reciever dryer from the same MFR.



Gil

Gil:
For what its worth, When I called Pep boys, they said their unit is a lifetime guarantee. I believe the Compressor was $220.00 and if you are doing it yourself free parts is not so bad, even if you have to re do it. The other item I learned about R4 compressors, they really dont have a sump like the old A6 on the G.Ms. The dryer and the system being clean is imperative. That is becasue there is an orifice in the dryer that allows so much oil to get to the compressor. If that orifice gets blocked it destroys the R4 because of oil starvation . I am still on the fence, because I have to repair mine. I can get one for $120.00 but only 90 days. I think I prefer lifetime , plus it came with the clutch.

PeterG




79 300 SD 75K miles
96 Concorde 120K miles
89 Jeep Cherokee 180K miles

Just my opinion though.... there is such a wide range in quality of rebuilds, it is difficult to know if you are getting quality. Because the AC system is so complicated and all the parts are connected in one continuous system, failure of one part may mean loss of an expensive charge (mainly if you stick to R12), loss of lubricant, entry of moisture into the system and potential damage to other components, added expense to replace a failed part, and difficulty in getting money back. Also, the cost of a brand new factory R4 compressor is not that much more expensive than a rebuild...the cost difference is not really worth the potential headaches of a poor rebuild.

Also, the compressor is the work horse of the system...a compromized compressor means a marginally functioning AC system.

Just my opinion though...

Mark

__________________
1984 300TD Wagon, 407,800 mi (current daily driver)
1985 300DT Sedan, 330,000 mi (gone to that great autobahn in the sky)

Well I'm about to find out about the quality of the R4 rebuilt from NAPA. After checking around, my NAPA guy quoted my a price of $106 for the cheaper of two rebuilds. It comes with a 1 year warranty as long as you replace the rec/dryer and the expansion valve. I am only replacing the dryer and the compressor and I'm picking up the Compressor tomorrow. I'll let you all know how it works. I'm also converting to R134A at the same time. How bad can it be with a 1 year warranty!!!

__________________
Orland Park, IL
1985 300SD 215,000 miles

Hey, let me know how it goes with the cheap one. That sounds exactly like the one NAPA quoted me for about $106 bucks or so. They told me to avoid it, but as yet I have no idea how good or bad it is. Who makes the compressor? Is there a label on the case?

-Gil

I have had EXTREMELY poor luck with Four Seasons rebuilt compressors. I have a mechanic friend that works on a lot of A/C systems and he has gotten where he recommends buying new if you can afford it. He told me flat out that he refuses to warranty the work if one of their compressors is chosen by his customer. From his perspective, having to take the thing on and off repeatedly is just not worth the trouble; he is there to do the job once and make money, not to have to take as many as 2 "rebuilt" compressors on and off at his expense. Just my $.02 worth.

Dave
1982 300D
287,000 miles

__________________
Dave

1982 300D
352,000 miles

I'm sorry I did not see this thread BEFORE you actually purchased the compressor.

For myself, "been there, done that!" I would NEVER AGAIN use a rebuilt R4 compressor. I put one on my wifes 300TD several years back. This was after completely flushing the entire system by taking everything apart as you should after a compressor failure. The rebuilt compressor immediately failed, recontaminating the system. causing me to repeat the flush routine. This was a huge amount of pain and suffering. The second rebuilt compressor failed which ultimately caused my wife to give up on this car that she loved so much.

If I had this to do over again, I would buy a new compressor whatever the cost.

I have heard since then that if you put a suction side filter on the entry to the compressor it will keep any contamination from spoiling the new compressor. I have not looked for such a filter, but in your case, if you are going to insist on taking this route, I would STRONGLY recommend that you find a suction side filter to put in the line. It may very well let you get by with the cheap compressor. Otherwise, I would suggest that you pay close attention to all the wrench sizes and tools that you need to replace the compressor and flush the system. This will save some time when you take it apart the second time.

Unless you are replacing the compressor due to a leakage type failure, rather than an internal breakage type failure, you MUST flush the entire system upon compressor replacement.

I feel your pain.

Best of luck with this,

The A/C techs don't call them "Four Siezens " for nothing.

__________________
The Golden Rule

1984 300SD (bought new, sold it in 1988, bought it back 13 yrs. later)

I installed my Factory Air rebuild unit (wasn't going to take it off and try to return it by now), vaccumed the system for fifteen minutes, (had a pro do that for me), and put in two cans of Autofrost R406 with about 8 oz of mineral oil to lube it all up. I took the advice of many and rotated the compressor shaft ten or fifteen times before firing up the engine and clicking on the compressor.

So far, so good. No leaks, and it's at least as cold as the R12, if not colder. All I need to do now is tighten the belt a bit and I should be good. TIme will tell on this conversion job, though.

Thanks to everyone for all the tips.

-Gil

It finally quit on me - the Factory Air compressor I installed what - almost five years ago? Not bad for $148 bucks, considering the usual rebuilt compressor experience. This time though, screw it - I'm going with the MB part, as Larry B and others emphatically suggested. And I'm having a pro do it all for me. Must be getting old.

__________________
Gil

2004 ML350
1984 300CD; Ivory (sold)

CALL these people because Mercedes isn't yet on their new improved website. They welcome phone calls. They know their stuff. On an R4 buy new (but not dealer for heaven's sake).
This is an R4, example only. The one for your car is not this one (this is an R4 "light"); but it gives you an idea of price. Yours probably ~$225?

http://www.ackits.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Product_Code=201023CP&Category_Code=Chevrolet84s102-2

Edit: Here's one just like yours, but "clocked" for a Chevy. Essentially the same as yours, though.
http://www.ackits.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Product_Code=201021CP&Category_Code=Chevrolet80impala3-8

__________________
The Golden Rule

1984 300SD (bought new, sold it in 1988, bought it back 13 yrs. later)

It looks like a good price, but there's more that needs to be done besides the compressor. Aux fan is toast, as is the spider hose. I'm not sure what price my mechanic quoted me for the compressor, but your estimate sounds about right, maybe even on the low side. Call me jaded, but it's summer, I've got limited work space and I dread the thought of one minute longer on hot vinyl seats.

This guy's done a bunch of 123s before and guarantees his work. Anyone in the Boston area might want to have a look:

http://www.virtualeas.com/open_house.html

__________________
Gil

2004 ML350
1984 300CD; Ivory (sold)

You should have used a synthetic oil instead of mineral oil. I'm sure that didn't cause the failure, but think about it for second go-round. Check out Diesel Giant for his view.