One of the best reasons to drive a 'Benz (w123 in particular) - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

w123fanman · #16 02-24-2015, 02:33 PM

It really depends on a lot of variables and yes, the safety has improved but that doesn't necessarily mean the W123 is unsafe. It will perform how it was designed to perform.

My dad bought his 240D in about 1990 because his friend driving a 240D was pancaked between a semi and a box truck in Atlanta traffic. There was fog and he was stopped behind a semi that was stopped and then was hit from behind by a box truck going over 50mph that couldn't see the traffic stopped ahead. He was only shaken up a bit and covered in diesel from where the tank ruptured. The crumple zones worked as designed. The passenger cell was not compromised.

If you are hit by a modern car in an accident, the modern car's crumple zones are going to work for you too as they will absorb energy. You are going to be much safer in any older car that has a safety cell and crumple zones like a Volvo or Mercedes than any other older car. In a high speed accident you are less likely to come out okay in any vehicle, better chances in a newer vehicle with good safety rating of course, but fortunately most accidents are low speed.

Of course you don't want to go around with a false sense of security but you shouldn't do that in any car. I would love to be able to daily drive a newer Mercedes with active and passive safety systems and of course I would feel safer but I would drive like I always do: to avoid accidents. You could be in a new S-class and be driving along and get rode over by some dude in an illegally lifted bro truck and be killed.

tjts1 · #17 02-24-2015, 03:07 PM

Quote:

If you are hit by a modern car in an accident, the modern car's crumple zones are going to work for you too as they will absorb energy. You are going to be much safer in any older car that has a safety cell and crumple zones like a Volvo or Mercedes than any other older car. In a high speed accident you are less likely to come out okay in any vehicle, better chances in a newer vehicle with good safety rating of course, but fortunately most accidents are low speed.

I'm just not so sure about that.
http://youtu.be/emtLLvXrrFs
The crumple zone on any car just has to be softer than the cabin of that same car. That doesn't necessarily mean its softer than the cabin of another older car. The ultra high strength steel used in modern cars is simply incompatible with cars from 20+ years ago.

EDIT: I'm not sure how the mad emoticon ended up in there, it was unintentional.

w123fanman · #18 02-24-2015, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

I'm just not so sure about that.
http://youtu.be/emtLLvXrrFs
The crumple zone on any car just has to be softer than the cabin of that same car. That doesn't necessarily mean its softer than the cabin of another older car. The ultra high strength steel used in modern cars is simply incompatible with cars from 20+ years ago.

That is a great video which obviously proves me wrong. I'll still say I'd rather be in an old Mercedes than an old Lincoln or such in an accident.

ROLLGUY · #19 02-24-2015, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w123fanman

That is a great video which obviously proves me wrong. I'll still say I'd rather be in an old Mercedes than an old Lincoln or such in an accident.

The way I read it:
"If you are hit by a modern car in an accident, the modern car's crumple zones are going to work for you too as they will absorb energy. You are going to be much safer in any older car that has a safety cell and crumple zones like a Volvo or Mercedes than any other older car. "
I would agree, so you are not totally wrong. If the crash test in the video was of the Volvo and another 80's sedan (Japanese, or American) I believe the Volvo would come out on top. It is hard to compare ANY older car to ANY newer car in terms of crash safety (that is exactly what the video proved).....Rich
EDIT: I think a good crash test would be a T-bone between a Focus and a W123, the W123 being the leg of the "T" (not the other way around as in Ben's accident). Or for that matter, the Volvo and the Renault in a T-bone situation.

ah-kay · #20 02-24-2015, 06:09 PM

Every accident is different. Impact velocity, angle, mass is different so it is futile to claim the w123 is superior to any modern car. The best is to avoid accident in the first place. We chose to drive a 25+ old car so we believe it is a good and /or safe car. I would leave it at that. If one day I find out the w124 w126 is not a good or safe car then I will switch to another make. That day probably will never come. My $0.02.

tjts1 · #21 02-24-2015, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

EDIT: I think a good crash test would be a T-bone between a Focus and a W123, the W123 being the leg of the "T" (not the other way around as in Ben's accident). Or for that matter, the Volvo and the Renault in a T-bone situation.

Side impacts are by far the hardest to protect against and the danger to occupants is still high even in modern cars. The worst case scenarios are a truck with a tall hood line or sliding sideways into a tree.

I think either of these scenarios would be fatal in an older car without side and head airbags. It might be survivable in a newer car but you're not going to walk away.
2012 Ford Focus side IIHS crash test: http://youtu.be/m_PPeB-FNVo

Ford Focus | 2013 | Pole Crash Test | NHTSA High Speed Cam | CrashNet1: http://youtu.be/0OQwr4KQXO8

Compare with an 05 focus lacking side curtain airbag.
Crash Test 2000 - 07 Ford Focus (Side Impact) IIHS: http://youtu.be/X7ll91F1K-M

ROLLGUY · #22 02-24-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Side impacts are by far the hardest to protect against and the danger to occupants is still high even in modern cars. The worst case scenarios are a truck with a tall hood line or sliding sideways into a tree..............

The secondary collision was the right rear hitting a tree and breaking off the wheel (second photo). Ben had a passenger, and he was unhurt.

Mark DiSilvestro · #23 02-24-2015, 11:42 PM

Compared to a Nissan Stanza - an '80s design last sold here in the early '90s - the W123 is a tank. With it's solid, nearly rust-free body, I'd certainly prefer to be in my '82 240D during an accident than any Stanza.
Still, my '96 Camry is probably a safer bet.
And unfortunately, by now so many W123s have been compromised by rust in the pillar/sill/floor areas to the extent that it is impractical, if not impossible, to repair to factory specs.
Nevertheless, though I'm aware of the differences, I simply don't obsess over the relative safety of the various vehicles I own.

Happy Motoring, Mark

BillGrissom · #24 02-25-2015, 03:11 PM

I feel safest when I drive my 65 Newport 4 door. Demolition Derby guys love those. The long trunk is 6 ft of "crumple zone", a bit better than a Smart Car. There is a popular youtube video from an insurance institute purporting to show how a newer car (1990's?) is safer as it slices thru a ~1960 GM sedan in an offset head-on collision. Many feel the video is non-representative since the older sedan goes up in a cloud of rust, the frame seems to be mysteriously absent, and it doesn't even support the "crumple zone" theory of newer cars.

Side impacts are hard to protect and even the little side air bags in some new cars help only a bit (more like wearing a helmet). My Newport has only its thick doors and mass, plus the B pillar. I was hit on the side once, which crunched the door, but didn't hurt me much nor damage the structure. The other car (1990's) was damaged. A big buck crunched a passenger door, which killed him, but also did no other damage. I do have to worry about running into something since no airbag, shoulder belt, or collapsible steering. But, I have never run into anything in 40 years of driving many vehicles, but have been run into on the back and sides many times by people who shouldn't be driving (most were uninsured).

BTW, many don't know that air bags are intended to protect only unbelted passengers. If you don't believe, lookup the NHSTB testing regulations. I have the reg somewhere at home.

ROLLGUY · #25 02-26-2015, 04:03 PM

Here are more photos of the car:

It's no wonder he has been having a sore hip for the past few days.

The right rear wheel:

The lug bolts just pulled right out of the hub when the wheel came in contact with a tree.

ROLLGUY · #26 02-26-2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Nice wheels.

The three good ones will be for sale. Ben just a couple months ago got a decent set of used Kumho tires for the car.

interzonearts · #27 02-26-2015, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

seen those since the 1960's. Racers prefer them since stiffer.

Make sure your friend does not answer "not injured" when the insurance prompts him. They work hard to get you to say that on tape.

Actually the extend to the injuries will become apparent in quite a while. The pain is a funny thing and one can feel only so much but it'll show in many different places over time, i believe.

I'd advise the friend not to talk to the insurance company at all and retain a lawyer. GOD KNOWS THE INSURANCE COMPANY HAS A BUNCH OF THEM.

enoch · #28 02-27-2015, 10:35 AM

i fully agree about getting a lawyer.. as a person that has dealt with nationwide insurance i would highly advise on it. my 94 jetta with a full custom interior competition stereo after market super light alloy wheel and a vr6 turbo swap done was stolen from my work parking lot.. found next day burnt to a crisp. nationwide paid a whopping $700 after fighting with them for months. the police wouldnt even let me see the car. they thought i was a suspect. seriously .. get representation!!!!

tjts1 · #29 02-27-2015, 10:49 AM

Ouch that drivers seat look brutal. I hope your friend has a full and speedy recover. That w123 did its job. It would have been much worse in a lesser car.

C.Doner · #30 02-27-2015, 07:31 PM

The pillars inside the doors should have been added as part of the federalization process done on the majority of euros. If it says Imported by (so and so) and meets all federal motor vehicle safety standards it has been federalized. If you see a euro without this plate or sticker, beware. It could be non federalized, which can cause issues in some states as far as registration goes.