Polarized Impressions of W210 Are Interesting - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

alabbasi · #16 09-10-2014, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

It's a clear step down in quality from the 124, and in comparison to the 123, it's just a caricature.

I can debate this all day and all night. I've owned a W210 for 10+ years and count on one hand where I've had to 'repair' something. When it needed repair, it was usually a very quick diagnosis using a generic OBDII scanner.

At 230+/- k miles, all the electrics works, the a/c worked and froze you out and the leather and wood were near perfect. By contrast any older MB that I've owned (and I've had a few) would nickel dime you every week with little things that needed addressing. Leather would get old, dash would crack and wood would lift off the console and crack.

People mistake heavy recirculating ball steering and dark, heavy plastics for quality. If this is the case, then the Volvo 240 is the best built car in the world.

The W210 feels lighter because it uses lighter materials, like any other newer car and has rack and pinion steering, like any newer car. That's progress.

Overall, it's a better product then its predecessor. Early cars suffered from rust issues because they used the first iteration of water based paints which created problems. Later models (99+) were dipped and don't have that problem.

No wiring issues, no climate control issues, 20+ mpg all day and all night from a V8 gas motor, and similar fuel economy from an E320 to that of W124 diesels when you factor in the differential in fuel cost.

tjts1 · #17 09-10-2014, 11:56 PM

Quote:

People mistake heavy recirculating ball steering and dark, heavy plastics for quality. If this is the case, then the Volvo 240 is the best built car in the world.

Yet the Volvo 240 has rack and pinion steering and weighs less than 3000LB

alabbasi · #18 09-11-2014, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Yet the Volvo 240 has rack and pinion steering and weighs less than 3000LB

Exactly, so looking and driving like a Sherman tank is not representative of quality.

Junkman · #19 09-11-2014, 12:06 AM

A friend of mine has a 97 gasser with <50,000 miles on it. He bought it new and has had an outstanding indy or the dealership do all of the maintenance and has documentation. The car looks new. I'd love to have it.

tjts1 · #20 09-11-2014, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

Exactly, so looking and driving like a Sherman tank is not representative of quality.

Is that why they sold 2.6 million 240s over the 18 year production run?

alabbasi · #21 09-11-2014, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Is that why they sold 2.6 million 240s over the 18 year production run?

Ford sold almost 2 million MKIII escorts over six years and it was kind of rubbish. I'm not suggesting that the Volvo is a bad car, it's definitely not standard to be set for building new cars and neither is the W123 or W124.

shertex · #22 09-11-2014, 07:58 AM

If Mxfrank is on one end of our spectrum, perhaps Jay_bob is on the other. Here's part of a post of his that interested me:

The 722.6/OM606 turbo combination in a W210 can not be beat in my book when properly maintained. The spring perch issue and body rust problems are the only flaws in an otherwise beautifully engineered and executed vehicle.

Some say the last 124 - 95 E300 - is the best Diesel MB ever made. I contend it is the 96-99 W210. The W210 design was baked before the Chrysler merger took hold, and to me represents the last of the models MB was allowed to design for reliability and not for cost.

Technology was racing forward in the early 90s, and many new techologies were incorporated in the W210, that were ahead of their time compared to other makers of that era, and not available when the 124 was designed in the early 80s.

- CAD design - the car was completely CAD modeled and the tooling produced on CNC machines. Totally standard today for even a KIA but back in the early 90s most were still doing it the old fashioned way. The W124 had some rudimentary computer FEA runs done to determine body strength, but the vast majority of that car was designed on a hand drawing board and the tooling created by hand off the drawings.
- Electronically controlled transmssions - not that many 5 speed auto transmissions available in the mid 90s. Even fewer that were electronically controlled.
- CAN bus body control - again another thing that even KIAs do as standard today but groundbreaking in the early 90s. Compare the way the 124 and 210 handle body control functions. Everything in the 124 is straight wired from fuse to switch to device. In the 210 everything communicates over CAN bus.

From OM606 in a w210, should I go for it?

Mxfrank · #23 09-11-2014, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

I can debate this all day and all night. I've owned a W210 for 10+ years and count on one hand where I've had to 'repair' something. When it needed repair, it was usually a very quick diagnosis using a generic OBDII scanner.

At 230+/- k miles, all the electrics works, the a/c worked and froze you out and the leather and wood were near perfect. By contrast any older MB that I've owned (and I've had a few) would nickel dime you every week with little things that needed addressing. Leather would get old, dash would crack and wood would lift off the console and crack.

People mistake heavy recirculating ball steering and dark, heavy plastics for quality. If this is the case, then the Volvo 240 is the best built car in the world.

The W210 feels lighter because it uses lighter materials, like any other newer car and has rack and pinion steering, like any newer car. That's progress.

Overall, it's a better product then its predecessor. Early cars suffered from rust issues because they used the first iteration of water based paints which created problems. Later models (99+) were dipped and don't have that problem.

No wiring issues, no climate control issues, 20+ mpg all day and all night from a V8 gas motor, and similar fuel economy from an E320 to that of W124 diesels when you factor in the differential in fuel cost.

There's not much to debate...you're in Texas, which means your car has little exposure to snow, cold, and salt. That make a big difference to a car that no rust protection. I have no idea what you mean by dipping...my car was a '99 and started rusting the very first winter.

The W210 weighed exactly the same as my W124 wagon. They aren't lighter, not one ounce.

There is a question of expectations...when you drive out of the showroom with a brand new $55,000 car, you expect that you won't be lifting a wrench for a very long time. When you buy a cheap used car for the brand prestige, you're prepared for sweat equity.

You should open your hood sometime: the E320 has a six, not an eight. It's hard to see under the plastic covers, but there's an ugly V6 in there. The engines are impeccable, just not pretty. Fuel efficient, too.

shertex · #24 09-11-2014, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

There is a question of expectations...when you drive out of the showroom with a brand new $55,000 car, you expect that you won't be lifting a wrench for a very long time. When you buy a cheap used car for the brand prestige, you're prepared for sweat equity.

You make a fair and interesting point. I'm sure that, consciously or unconsciously, those of us who pick up a W210 for $5,000 are more forgiving of imperfections.

alabbasi · #25 09-11-2014, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

There's not much to debate...you're in Texas, which means your car has little exposure to snow, cold, and salt. That make a big difference to a car that no rust protection. I have no idea what you mean by dipping...my car was a '99 and started rusting the very first winter.

The W210 weighed exactly the same as my W124 wagon. They aren't lighter, not one ounce.

There is a question of expectations...when you drive out of the showroom with a brand new $55,000 car, you expect that you won't be lifting a wrench for a very long time. When you buy a cheap used car for the brand prestige, you're prepared for sweat equity.

You should open your hood sometime: the E320 has a six, not an eight. It's hard to see under the plastic covers, but there's an ugly V6 in there. The engines are impeccable, just not pretty. Fuel efficient, too.

I'm not talking about weight, I'm referring to the feeling of heaviness that some mistake for a feeling of qualIty. 99+ cars had better rust protection then the earlier cars. My 97 had the spring perch issue in 05, fixed by MB, probably because it lived in Chicago for 6 years. I go to Chicago often, there are plenty of rusty MB's before and after the w210

tjts1 · #26 09-11-2014, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

You make a fair and interesting point. I'm sure that, consciously or unconsciously, those of us who pick up a W210 for $5,000 are more forgiving of imperfections.

$5000!?!? What a princely sum. How about $2800.

Graham · #27 09-11-2014, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

- CAN bus body control - again another thing that even KIAs do as standard today but groundbreaking in the early 90s. Compare the way the 124 and 210 handle body control functions. Everything in the 124 is straight wired from fuse to switch to device. In the 210 everything communicates over CAN bus.[/I]

I like many things about our W210, but having groundbreaking CAN bus is not one of them! Ever tried trouble shooting a CAN bus system? Or even understand the wiring diagrams. On older cars such as the W123 and probably 124, you can troubleshoot electrical problems with a multimeter. Not so with CAN bus.

This is one of those advancements that made me buy extended warranties on both the '98 W210 and our '14 GLK250. No remaining warranty on W210 of course, and that is probably why it is worth so little. The car buying public are smart enough to realize that any cheap "electronic" car can be very expensive when you have to take it to dealer for diagnosis/repair.

I may be a dinosaur, but what I would prefer is a new W126 diesel.

tjts1 · #28 09-11-2014, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

I like many things about our W210, but having groundbreaking CAN bus is not one of them! Ever tried trouble shooting a CAN bus system? Or even understand the wiring diagrams. On older cars such as the W123 and probably 124, you can troubleshoot electrical problems with a multimeter. Not so with CAN bus.

Get Carsoft 7.4 and learn how to use it. It makes diagnostic and repair on the w210 easier than the 123 or 124. Modern cars require modern skills. Its a crazy idea, I know.

ROLLGUY · #29 09-11-2014, 01:39 PM

I will add my impression of the W210 based on my experience. I owned my first W210 (1998 E300) for about 2 years until I fell asleep at the wheel and off-roaded it. I survived unharmed (thank you Lord!), but the car did not. $6,500 worth of damage to the car (bumper, radiator, intercooler, core support etc) made it a total loss from my insurance. I bought the car back for $400, and spent $1,000 in parts (Thanks to Phil @ PeachParts) fixing it. I drove it for a few months more until my friend begged me to sell it to him. That was all more than 5 years ago, and my friend drives the car everyday. He has me service it for him, and other than a bad alternator, the car has been trouble free all the time he has owned it. When I had it, I thoroughly loved it! I enjoyed every mile driving it, and wish I had not sold it. The W210 E300 TURBODIESEL gets a resounding

pawoSD · #30 09-11-2014, 02:33 PM

My brother has had his W210 gasser (M112 motor) for almost 1.5 years now and is closing in on 25k miles....all that's been "repaired" so far is the brake light switch ($26) and a marker light bulb ($1)...and a few oil changes. I would call that reliable!

His has about 156k on it now....0 leaks, everything works.

My dad has had one since January, also no issues at all, recently the sensor in the passenger seat failed and turned off the SRS, he's going to get a disable dongle and that will fix the issue. ($65)

Easy to work on, reliable.

I love my W203 wagon...wife drives it every day....0 problems....at all...everything works.