Submitted for your approval. Note the construction of the Austro engine...

Will we all be flying diesels? - Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association

Not your father's airplane - Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association

__________________
-Evan


Benz Fleet:
1968 UNIMOG 404.114
1998 E300
2008 E63


Non-Benz Fleet:
1992 Aerostar
1993 MR2
2000 F250

Cool, and it's an MB engine!



kinda a new twist on the word SPRINTER!!!

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Well, pretty much all jet engines burn something that is remarkably like diesel fuel.
A friend of mine burned a barrel of aviation fuel in his 220D and loved it!

Phil Forrest

__________________
1972 220D "Trudy," named by a friend.

"The 220D sounds good... I suspect it is the only car that you need a calendar for, rather than a stopwatch, when doing acceleration tests."
Tom Abrahamsson

That's what caught my attention too. Sadly, the HPFP is life limited to 600 hours. I can imagine a market for timed out pumps being sold to the automotive world as spares in less critical applications...

__________________
-Evan


Benz Fleet:
1968 UNIMOG 404.114
1998 E300
2008 E63


Non-Benz Fleet:
1992 Aerostar
1993 MR2
2000 F250

Nothin' new here. Google for "Packard Diesel aircraft engine" and see what you get. I've seen one at Pioneer Village in Minden NE. Interesting experiment and it was close to working.

Dan

Oh agreed, diesel's in planes aren't new, they just seem to be coming on strong.

There's a member here "jhunt" with a Guiberson diesel that I hope to work with him on getting fitted to his Stearman one of these days.

__________________
-Evan


Benz Fleet:
1968 UNIMOG 404.114
1998 E300
2008 E63


Non-Benz Fleet:
1992 Aerostar
1993 MR2
2000 F250

Junkers Jumo 205 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

You're a little late.....like 75 years coming to the av/diesel party. Germany had diesel powered-bomber engines in WW II.

__________________
'06 E320 CDI
'17 Corvette Stingray Vert

The Germans and the Soviets had diesel aircraft, and there were a few projects along those lines about a decade ago for civil aviation, but they just aren't that common.

The new cessna 182s are technically diesels, but they will be burning JetA, not auto/truck diesel. The cool thing is that technically they could. I do hope to one day add a DD sticky in the alternative fuels thread regarding regular diesel in my 182.

__________________

77' 300D, "Cartman" SOLD @ 150K (didn't know what I had)
83' 300SD, "The Superdon" 325k+ @ 28mpg
95 E320 wagon, "Millennium Falcon" 231k+ @ 24 Mpg
95 E300D, "Sherley" 308k @ 33.69 Mpg, currently anticipating a head
99 Suzuki Intruder "Trudy" @ 45 mpg

If you speak with a petroleum engineer, they will tell you the different jet fuels come off the still tap just above diesel. The Kerosene that you buy at the farm and fleet stores is actually much closer to jet fuel than diesel.

The Navy uses JP5 and now JP8, both "heavier" that commercial JetA, but lighter than diesel 1 and of course diesel 2 we use on the road. See the attached chart


The objective here is multi faceted;

• Aviation gasoline has an ever diminishing market and has had since the 50's. The price to the consumer has risen steadily since the introduction of Jet fuel.
• Jet fuel is cheaper and more widely availible.
• The Navy now has one fuel for ships, for aircraft, and mobile equipment
• The diesel engine is far more efficient and powerful than a comparable displacement gasoline engine, especially in a somewhat stationary installation such as an aircraft.

It would be interesting to know the sulfur content of JetA and whether Bosch made any changes or improvements to the CDI system to deal with difference in fuel lubricity needed to keep injectors and pumps operating properly.

This specifically was alway a deterrent for me to run straight JP5 in my diesel cars years back. The GSE guys I knew said the injection systems were different to handle the "dryer" properties of jet fuel. JetA, and even JP5 will evaporate completely, where diesel leaves oil no matter how long it's exposed to the air.

One other consideration is BTUs. D2 has more heat energy than JetA, but JetA per gallon significantly trumps Aviation and Auto gas. An efficiency bonus for diesel airplanes, but a mileage penally for diesel vehicles operated on Jet Fuel or Kerosene.

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
Mark
========
THE WHITE FLEET
2016 GLE300d 4-MATIC 38K BROWN!
2012 S350 Bluetec==94k WHITE

2007 ML320 CDI==166K WHITE (FOR SALE)

Under new management:
2005 E320 CDI--140K--WHITE
1995 E300-Diesel-133.5K--THE CAR IS BLUE
1986 300SL--97.5K (European) AND WHITE. Back in Europe!
1991 190E 2.3-73K California Perfect.--WHITE
1995 E320-Wagon-159K--WHITE (recently scrapped)
1987 300D Turbo-213K--WHITE
1987 190D 2.5 Turbo-288K--WHITE

Now Markg612 is a guy what knows somethin'!

Not sure about other Bosch stuff but my early 2002 Dodge Cummins pump is low-sulfur ready even though low sulfur was not on the market when it was sold. Evidently Bosch (and I imagine Stanadyne and others) knew this was coming and prepared for it.

We ran low sulfur as far back as at least 1998 or so on the dyno with no ill effects. I don't know if there were changes internally (coatings, metallurgy, etc.) or if the pumps were really OK with low sulfur from the start.

So Mark - Raises a question that's been in the back of my mind for several years -
Are there mountains of sulfur at Diesel fuel manufacturing facilities? All the sulfur has to go SOMEWHERE! What's the market for sulfur?

Dan

ok, so when do the WVO planes hit the market?

are these planes convertible to WVO? will they run on Biodiesel?

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

As long as the aircraft airworthiness certification is issued as "experimental" vs "Standard" you're pretty much able to do or experiment as you please, just without passengers for the most part. Many of the warbird and race aircraft are "experimental" category for that reason.

Boeing did a BioJetFuel trial. Boeing announce plans to accelerate bio-jet fuel development It's on the grid, but still a few years off.

Straight up diesels whether mineral or bio, are an issue with airplanes do to gelling/wax and cleanliness. Most of what we'll see going forward will be kerosene or jet fuel oriented using the diesel cycle, verse the fuel.

Hey thanks for the kind comments--

Ah, Stanadyne--Brings back nightmares of my 1983 4.3L Olds Cierra Diesel. I had the pump and injectors in and out of that car every 30K or so for one reason or another! Not surprising if they were ahead of 15PPM diesel. Europe switched long ago, and many of the issues in the states with German diesels were centered on our dirty fuel. Given Cummins was shipping world wide, I'd venture to guess the went with reverse compatibility with the US market pumps until we caught up with the rest of the world??

I completely forgot about the DPF and the need for 15PPM low sulfur diesel. Lubricity is addressed through DPF friendly additives and improved system components in new installations. While the sulfur reduction reduces base lubricity it also reduces exhaust emissions and is compatible with the DPF.

Excess sulfur?
Matches, fireworks propellent and gunpowder!