1987 190d 2.5 turbo front end shake around 60mph. Any ideas? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Ndralle · #16 03-04-2014, 01:58 AM

OK so the problem still persists. I've been slowly replacing all the from end parts with know good brands.

Parts I've replaced.
_strut mounts
_tie rods (used known good)
_ball joints
_lower control arm bushings
_drive line center support
_all four rear rear stabilizing arms.

In addition to this I measured and straightened the frame. All measurements are now within spec by 1mm.

Every repair so far has made the car more stable, smoother and handle a lot better. The steering is a lot tights after control arm build and the rear end no longer twists on accel.

But the problem still remains. At around 55mph the car has a noticeable yet subtle shake that vocationally turns into a very violent shake.

My thought now is that it is either the center steering link, idler arm, or struts. All of these seem fine. BTW.

Any ideas?

benhogan · #17 03-04-2014, 12:11 PM

it's the tires. I had the exact problem and replaced pretty much everything except the tires. changed the tires and the problem went away. it turned out to be bad belts.

Mölyapina · #18 03-04-2014, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ndralle

190dt front end shake around 60mph. Any ideas?

Drive faster.

Mölyapina · #19 03-04-2014, 12:48 PM

X2 on tires/wheels. they can be very nefarious. Check for uneven tread wear, bulging, etc. Check to see if there are marks left behind by missing wheel weights (some may have fallen off). If the tires have >50% wear left and look to be in good shape, I might try a wheel balance first.

You can swap one front and back wheel to see if the vibration changes significantly -- if it becomes less violent, the problem wheel/tire is the one moved to the rear. If it becomes more violent, the problem wheel/tire is the one moved to the front. If no change is observed, try swapping the other side instead. If still nothing changes then maybe the problem is elsewhere.

Incidentally, even if you find a problem wheel/tire on your first try, I would still swap the other side to make sure that it isn't contributing to the problem. Unless you just want to replace tires in pairs.

Mark DiSilvestro · #20 03-04-2014, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ndralle

since i bought my 190dt it has slowly been showing its true nature. the new problem is that it will occasionally shake very violently at highway speeds. (the speedo doesn't work so i cant tell exact speed. +2500rpm in 4th gear auto.) the sake is not always there.

It first happened a few hours after i got some used tires. as soon as it happened i stopped the car and checked all the lug nuts. at this time the shaking went away.

A few weeks later I did the front brakes. As soon as i jumped on the freeway the shaking was back with a vengeance. Ever since this day the shaking has been more frequent and the car always feels a little "squirly" on the freeway.

just so you know. the first thing i am goin to try is to replace the rubber strut mounts. the ones in the car are very cracked and worn out. after that i think i will get a set of used wheels from a local junker. the wheels on the car are not atock and have alot of curb rash.

I would like to blame alignment or bent rim but the fact that is doesnt happen all the time has me doubting that.

any ideas?

"It first happened a few hours after i got some used tires."
"the wheels on the car are not stock and have alot of curb rash."

Time to bite the bullet and get some decent wheels and NEW tires!

Happy Motoring, Mark

Mxfrank · #21 03-04-2014, 02:24 PM

+1 Tires. Also, change the steering shock.

DieselPaul · #22 03-04-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

clean the ball joint boots and look carefully if they are black rubber ones they are not lemforder joints, lemforder joints (which is the ONLY joint one should use in these cars) have white plastic boots.

I know the op already did balljoints but I got some lemfoerder balljoints for a 124 from pelican last month that had black boots.

Ndralle · #23 03-04-2014, 02:51 PM

I'm sorry. I forgot to list wheels and tires. The previous owner had over sized wheels on the car when I bought it. Once the shaking started I replaced the wheels and tires with a used set of stock wheels and new tires. I also had the new wheels checked and they are not bent.

Mxfrank · #24 03-04-2014, 04:41 PM

Ball joints are a red herring. They don't explain this sort of vibration. Usually, they just let go without warning. If there's vibration at all, it will be random and at lower speeds.

A vibration around 60 mph is nearly always wheel or drivetrain related. Did you say this is a 190DT? If so, check the space between the front swaybar and the oil pan. there should be at least 1/4 inch of clear air. If the engine mounts are bad, the engine will settle down onto the sway bar, and you will have not-good vibrations. It seems to be a problem unique to 190D 2.5's.

Ndralle · #25 03-04-2014, 10:01 PM

Yes it is the 2.5 turbo. I will check the sway bars. I have been considering that it might be motor mounts. I am not exactly sure how to check the mounts on the om602. All my other cars are w123's and those mounts are easy to diagnose.

I bought a new trans mount aswell but I don't have a wrench that will clear the top bolt and flex disc.

Maxbumpo · #26 03-05-2014, 04:08 PM

New steering damper should be next, and you should also consider replacing the bushings in the idler arm.

Do you feel the shaking in the steering wheel, or is the car shaking?

If the whole car, then perhaps the drive shaft bearing support, or a flex disc is the culprit.

Mxfrank · #27 03-05-2014, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ndralle

Yes it is the 2.5 turbo. I will check the sway bars. I have been considering that it might be motor mounts. I am not exactly sure how to check the mounts on the om602. .

I told you how...measure the clearance between the sway bar and the oil pan. Should be at least 1/4". When the mounts collapse, the pan will be resting on the sway bar.

Ndralle · #28 03-11-2014, 01:42 AM

ok so while I was under the car yet again I checked the sway bar clearance. It is right at 1/4 inch. While under there I had the misses shake the wheel at 3 and 9. There is visible play in the idler arm and pitman/steering box.

I checked the front tires and the front right had uneven wear so i swapped the spare into its place. the shaking seemed to settle for the day. Only to come back with a vengeance the next.

I ordered a new set of struts and an idler arm rebuild kit (lemforder). I have suspected the idler arm since day one but when I had the car checked out they said the idler arm was fine.

I also got a set of offset wrenches so I can do the trans mount.

The struts set me back a bit so i will have to wait until payday to order a new steering damper. Can anyone recommend a good brand for the damper. I've seen a lot of meyle online. I saw one site had Sachs. I was thinking about going with that. i couldn't seem to find Bilstein damper for the w201.

I will report back after i rebuild the idler arm.

Ndralle · #29 03-15-2014, 09:15 PM

The struts and idler arm are a big improvement in the over all driving but they did not fix the problem.

The good news is that while the shake is still present it has changed a little. After installing new struts the front end feels a lot tighter and the shake has seamed to more to the center console instead of the entire front end.

I figured it was time to swap out the trans mount and while under there I took a good look around and I think I found the problem.

Flex disc. The rear flex disc looks perfect while front not so much. All 3 of the bolts that mount the disc to the trans look like the pictures. I'm considering parking her until the new disc get here. I've hear flex disc horrors and actually had the drive line drop out of my 300td the day after I bought it because the flexdisc bolts fell out.

BodhiBenz1987 · #30 03-15-2014, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ndralle

The struts and idler arm are a big improvement in the over all driving but they did not fix the problem.

The good news is that while the shake is still present it has changed a little. After installing new struts the front end feels a lot tighter and the shake has seamed to more to the center console instead of the entire front end.

I figured it was time to swap out the trans mount and while under there I took a good look around and I think I found the problem.

Flex disc. The rear flex disc looks perfect while front not so much. All 3 of the bolts that mount the disc to the trans look like the pictures. I'm considering parking her until the new disc get here. I've hear flex disc horrors and actually had the drive line drop out of my 300td the day after I bought it because the flexdisc bolts fell out.

That was going to be my suggestion ... very good you caught it now and not when it gives, like my 240D's did (fortunately at low speed but still a mess)!