MB 616 diesel powered Astro build - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JB3 · #46 04-17-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I like how you modified the manifolds to work with the 4 cylinder. One of my projects was going to be a 616 turbo 240D. I was planning to use 617 turbo pistons and rods, and somehow make the piston oilers work as well. I was also researching how to add the extra fuel (616 IP not made for a turbo), and I think an ALDA can be added in place of the ADA. I have not found anyone that has tried it, but maybe that will be you! The other option would be to use the back half of the 617 pump with the front of the 616. That would involve the services of an IP shop, and would probably be expensive. You will also need a turbo oil filter stand, and the oil feed tube. The turbo oil drain tube will be a challenge as well. You could just drill and tap pipe threads in the upper pan for a barbed fitting, and just use a rubber hose with hose clamps. I am sure you are not the first to try this, so you probably already have thought about all this anyway. The turboing (is that a word?) of a 616 could be an entire thread by itself, as there is much information to be shared and had on just that part of your project alone. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep the photos coming as well (we like photos!)...Rich

I did grab a ALDA to possibly replace my ADA on the 616 pump, im sort of playing that by ear. Ive been observing closely threads by OM616, 47dodge, and purplecomputer who have all turbo charged the 616. It seems like it holds up decently.

originally, I grabbed the back plate off a 617 turbo oil filter housing, drain pipe, and feed to resolve turbo oiling with the stock 616 oil filter housing, BUT, I had to remove that to fit the transmission adapter, so now its a remote head.

I found a remote filter head from Moroso for racing stuff that has a 1/4 inch outlet from the filter head, so ill be running that to the turbo oil feed. Placement of that I still haven't worked out, but it has to be as close as possible.

As far as longevity, im going to be interested to see how impacted that might be. From the people have turbo charged their engines, it seems like its really not that big a deal, BUT, I don't think anyone has a million miles on one out there, so it may in fact result in reduced engine life. I will see, this motor has about 220K on it. Im basing my feeling on just how overbuilt these engines seem to be. Ive seen so many gas motors with half the construction and reinforcement of the 616 that are turbocharged. ill just have to see

JB3 · #47 04-17-2013, 04:24 PM

adjusted camber and dealt with the last subframe bolt.

camber was pretty bad originally-

super scientific method to get it close, ill have an alignment shop dial it in when the van is running

subframe bolt I was able to use the original nut still, I drilled the pass through hole just a little larger, and it threaded! it was less off than I initially expected. I was going to weld this shut, but I think im going to clean it up and install an access panel. Why GM made these things completely enclosed by metal is beyond me, this nut is heavily rusted

Removing some flex pieces and downpipe stuff from the stock mercedes setup back to this bolt flange on the turbo housing itself produced a lot of room to do a pipe down. Ill make a pipe the bolts to this point instead

daw_two · #48 04-17-2013, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

You and deliveryvalve both had the same notion, definitely works! Makes plenty of room. I need to rig something up, looking for 45% pipe to make a custom down pipe. Pic below (soon)

There's been suppliers mentioned over on the 4BT swaps website. I reused the original downpipe on my 4BT swap and had the exhaust pipe welded to it.

I saw your swap documented over there on the 4BT website. Nice.

JB3 · #49 04-18-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daw_two

There's been suppliers mentioned over on the 4BT swaps website. I reused the original downpipe on my 4BT swap and had the exhaust pipe welded to it.

I saw your swap documented over there on the 4BT website. Nice.

yeah, I love 4btswaps, what an inspiration cruising that website is to stalling projects. Whenever I think something might be an issue, I just recall that some guy crammed a 5.9 cummins mated to a 6 speed manual into a camper as an example.
Also theres an awesome thread where some guy in memphis crammed a 4bt into a dakota 4x4.

Found a local guy to do the downpipe for me, pic below-

so some minor updates-

stock driveshaft for the 4.3 auto fits without modification to the manual-

couple pics of the type of room underneath now that I could lift it. Im liking the accessibility that this body lift creates, lots of room to fit various items-
driver side-

passenger side-

Turbo exhaust downpipe resolved. Local custom exhaust place made this for me. Id say its a minimum 2 inches from the body at its closest. Im going to support this in a second place off the transmission bolt pattern, maybe a third using the original second support on the exhaust manifold-

Slave installed-

I might luck out on the remote oil filter. It looks like I can drill a couple holes and mount it directly to the driver side engine mount, which would put it just a few inches from the remote plate I have and minimize the oil travel-

daw_two · #50 04-18-2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

yeah, I love 4btswaps, what an inspiration cruising that website is to stalling projects.

Also theres an awesome thread where some guy in memphis crammed a 4bt into a dakota 4x4.

Are you talking about this thread

:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?13079-4BT-into-a-Dakota
?
Over 52,000 views to date. I really do need to install the windshield washer and finish a couple of other things. I hope it rains this afternoon; my windshield has so much pollen on it, I can barely see out of it.

Wish you lived closer; maybe you could help motivate me to drop the Deutz F4L912 into an F-150 or Dodge 1500. What fun!!!

JB3 · #51 04-20-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daw_two

Are you talking about this thread

:
4BT into a 00 Dakota 4wd
?
Over 52,000 views to date. I really do need to install the windshield washer and finish a couple of other things. I hope it rains this afternoon; my windshield has so much pollen on it, I can barely see out of it.

Wish you lived closer; maybe you could help motivate me to drop the Deutz F4L912 into an F-150 or Dodge 1500. What fun!!!

thats the one!

A Deutz engine? That sounds like a fun project

so a few updates, I reinstalled all the front clip stuff and the bumper to get an idea on how the front looks with the subframe dropped. The result is weird (perhaps enhanced by the color difference). I will need to make a set of brackets to get the bumper back up.

For the last couple nights ive been researching chevy steering column disassembly, and after reading numerous threads, my decision is that I will be drilling out the pin for the shifter handle, and cutting off the tab in the engine bay vs opening that pandoras box and trying to remove those parts from the assembly. I did receive my steering linkage extension to make up for the lift!

Im using a ford V10 high torque starter (or so it says on the box). This is approximately half the size of the original MB starter, and will have some mechanical advantage working with the bigger flywheel. It fits pretty well with no interference around it-

Stretch · #52 04-21-2013, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

...
Im using a ford V10 high torque starter (or so it says on the box). This is approximately half the size of the original MB starter, and will have some mechanical advantage working with the bigger flywheel. It fits pretty well with no interference around it-

Part number and price please!

JB3 · #53 04-23-2013, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Part number and price please!

Its a mid grade Duralast, DL3299S starter. Its a reman, about 140 bucks. That model stater fits a whole bunch of ford applications, like V8s and V10s, expeditions and F series trucks ect. I think I sourced it using a 2003 Ford F250 with the 6.8 10 cylinder gas.

Honestly though, the adapter plate im using has a lot of space for a different starter if I want to drill some holes. I was interested in the DLG3201S, which is the starter for the 2003 7.3 powerstroke in the same truck, with a different bolt pattern, which im sure would have no problem turning over the 616. The DL3299S should probably be fine though, but I do have long term options

daw_two · #54 04-23-2013, 11:48 AM

I kind of like the look....almost looks like a mouth; if you could turn up the ends it would be an interesting smile. The "chevy" symbol though needs to be dropped a few inches and changed to a more appropriate "nose". Can you remove the front license plate bracket?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

The result is weird (perhaps enhanced by the color difference). I will need to make a set of brackets to get the bumper back up.

JB3 · #55 04-23-2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daw_two

I kind of like the look....almost looks like a mouth; if you could turn up the ends it would be an interesting smile. The "chevy" symbol though needs to be dropped a few inches and changed to a more appropriate "nose". Can you remove the front license plate bracket?

you and my neighbor have the same idea. He was over here talking about a steel fan cowling, and instead, he made some construction paper models of the custom body work he thinks I should do.
His other suggestion was replace the horns with a recording of goofy in a fall, or nyuck-nyucking.

JB3 · #56 04-27-2013, 11:12 AM

so a few small but important developments, finally got the clutch pedal worked out and fitting with the steering column.
The consistent issue was that the clutch pedal stop was too weak, and also in the way of some electrical connections that occupy the same space with the column up.

column installed with arrow pointing to the stop, that plug fits right into the stop area and cannot be moved, controls brights/turn signals, ect, lever activated from up the column-

Clutch pedal had to be removed and this hole filled in a redrilled. both these holes should be about the same size as a comparison-

Also my steering shaft extension all installed and lined up. Fortunately, it can only be installed one way, they make it pretty easy to avoid getting the wheel mis-aligned with the direction of the tires-

old and new-

new shaft installed-

EDIT- some other updates-

couple other little updates-

installed this nice set of drop spindles from an astro forum guy-

comparison-

very pleased with the new ride height-

the van is now actually within 1/4 of an inch level between front and rear amazingly-

JB3 · #57 05-08-2013, 04:09 PM

tiny update-

bunch of little things taken care of, power steering hoses hooked up, a few other items, waiting on a oil filter gasket for my new oil filter relocation plate, however, one big hurdle passed-

this morning I went down to the DMV and put in paperwork re-registering the van as a 4 cyl diesel vehicle.
Total success! Woman didn't even bat an eye, and now its legal and registered with the engine swap! now to get it running

Stretch · #58 05-09-2013, 03:32 AM

Congratulations - getting the paperwork done is always a big boost!

JB3 · #59 05-11-2013, 04:55 PM

so I have an idea ill see what you all have to say as far as performance-

If I removed the MB power steering pump and related bracket, I would open up some serious room right there, and I also have been looking at prices, and the stock 89 astro power steering pump with reservoir is a staggeringly cheap 30-50 bucks, and stock lines are about 15-20, AND have the ornerous bump fittings already done up for the high pressure side.

My plan is to take the Mercedes pump off, remove the V-pulley, and mount it to the Astro pump, mounting the astro approximately where it was on the stock application, which is where the A/C compressor would be on the 616 If I were including it. Then I can use stock lines and pump for the life of the vehicle

the only problem is pulley size issues-

These are numbers taken from an 89 astro 4.3 V6, approximately the crank pulley is 7 and 3/4 inches, and the

power steering pulley is 6 and 1/4 inches.

on the 616, approximately the crank pulley is 4.5 inches, and the power steering pulley is 5.5 inches

Im figuring this using this formula- Ratio = (Radius of Driven Pulley) / (Radius of Drive Pulley)
so for the astro pulley formula it looks like- Ratio = (3.125) / (3.875), getting me a .81-1 ratio for stock astro
for the 616 engine, the formula looks like- Ratio = (2.75) / (2.25), getting me a 1.22-1 ratio.

HOWEVER, if I mount the astro power steering pump lowish and use the crank pulley that formerly drove the A/C compressor, I can alter the ratios to a much closer .92-1.

What im trying to determine is what id end up doing to steering performance increasing the pulley pump speed by about 10%, and if it matters. any opinions?

ROLLGUY · #60 05-12-2013, 12:46 AM

I may have a hard time expressing my thoughts on this one, so bare with me. I believe (although I could be wrong) the overall RPM range of the Diesel would be different than the 4.3 was (slower idle and top RPM). That being said, I doubt the difference in PS pump final drive ratio from the GM to the Benz will have a noticeable effect on performance. Is the PS pump also for the power brakes (hydroboost)? That might change the whole equation. However, I am sure that torque will not be a problem at idle to run the accessories. Again, please correct me if I am wrong on any of this (just thinking out loud)....Rich