Engine Cleaning Damaged Aluminum... now what? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

treetrimmer · #16 10-01-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwerty

Steel wool and many types of sandpaper are bad news on aluminum. Small particles become embedded in the aluminum and cause corrosion at a later date. A 3M Scotchbrite pad (or similar) is a far better option.

I have cautioned against the use of surfactant-type cleaners many times, only to be told I didn't know what I was talking about. Well, this thread is precisely what I was talking about.

Interesting reading:

Cleaning alumninum aircraft without corrosion

Yes, you do know what you're talking about. The OP has gone and used a very caustic chemical on aluminum and really damaged it. The sad thing is that GUNK brand "Engine Brite", available at every FLAPS in the land, works better than anything else and does not damage any metals.

I'm a real freak about clean engines and chassis parts, I own a hot pressure washer and a small cold one. GUNK EB plus a good coin car wash with a warm engine will yield great results if you know what you're doing. Scraping heavy dirt/grease off first doesn't hurt if it's really severe.

Here are pics of one of my engines:

mach4 · #17 10-01-2012, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treetrimmer

I'm a real freak about clean engines and chassis parts....

I really like clean engines too.

The last time I did a valve adjustment, I painted the valve cover the same as my Bundts. It looks decent, but I don't recommend wheel paint as it has started to discolor from the engine heat. A regular engine enamel or a temp-resistant base-clear system would be better.

This would be a solution for Benzasaurus's damaged aluminum if it can't be cleaned up or buffed out.

treetrimmer · #18 10-01-2012, 01:50 AM

Mach4, that looks great. The pictures I posted are not that great, they are just the only engine pics I could find quickly. They are of my old SDL, which I no longer have.

For 617 valve covers, (or any other raw aluminum), the ultimate product is mag wheel cleaner. The etching type, for bare alloy. Yes, it etches. But in a controlled way, if you use it right, and things come out REALLY silver. I used it on my aluminum Porsche 911 case halves when I did a full rebuild and the results were stunning. It may or may not have looked as good the day it was originally built.

Pictures:

vstech · #19 10-01-2012, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach4

I really like clean engines too.

The last time I did a valve adjustment, I painted the valve cover the same as my Bundts. It looks decent, but I don't recommend wheel paint as it has started to discolor from the engine heat. A regular engine enamel or a temp-resistant base-clear system would be better.

This would be a solution for Benzasaurus's damaged aluminum if it can't be cleaned up or buffed out.

what's with the air cleaner? did you not have access to the CA setup? or did you just want hot engine air in the turbo?

cullennewsom · #20 10-01-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treetrimmer

...the ultimate product is mag wheel cleaner. The etching type, for bare alloy. Yes, it etches. But in a controlled way, if you use it right, and things come out REALLY silver.

That stuff usually has dilute HF in it. From the Wiki:

Quote:

Hydrogen fluoride gas is an acute poison that may immediately and permanently damage lungs and the corneas of the eyes. Aqueous hydrofluoric acid is a contact-poison with the potential for deep, initially painless burns and ensuing tissue death. By interfering with body calcium metabolism, the concentrated acid may also cause systemic toxicity and eventual cardiac arrest and fatality, after contact with as little as 160 cm2 (25 square inches) of skin.

I tend to avoid HF any time there is an alternative.

Benzasaurus · #21 10-01-2012, 09:33 AM

So much of it looks alot better. If I do clean it any more, it will be with WD-40 and a scotchbrite pad to start.

I would never have put lye on my car if I'd recognized the ingredient on the bottle. The bottle didn't say, "not safe for aluminum" just "avoid prolonged contact". And I did try Engine Brite. I tried a lot of things.

When I got the car, I could not see any tags on parts. I didn't know those existed. There was no visible writing on hoses. I saw that for the first time this morning. In fact, all of the hoses were black with baked on oil. Vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, whatever. No difference. It was so bad when I finally got it off for half a second I worried I was removing some plastic shell around the hose! It'd baked on to a mm+ thick layer around the hoses. The valve cover was so black, and black even after rubbing with a rag, that I thought it was black underneath. For me it's been a bit of a journey getting it clean to the point where I can identify things. But I love this car, and I have been expressing that love with cleaning attempts.

1) I tried soap and water. The rags came away with sludge but the engine did not look different. Then I tried 2) Engine Brite at the car wash. Negligible results. Then I tried 3) the car wash engine cleaner since I figured it ought to be stronger since it can only sit on it for a couple of minutes because of the time limit at the wash. Wrong. Then I tried 4) Simple Green. That worked but very slowly and only in high concentrations. It was going to need at least 5 rounds in the car wash. 5) I used Simple Green Aircraft Extreme on the IP at home to avoid getting water on the IP at the car wash. Success. But it took 1.5 hours to clean the IP. 6) I accidentally nuked it. But now it looks kind of ok.

I'm pretty sure that in its past life something happened with the oil cap and the engine hosed itself down in oil. And then it cooked like a Thankgsiving turkey.

Benzasaurus · #22 10-01-2012, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwerty

...

Interesting reading:

Cleaning alumninum aircraft without corrosion

Thanks for this!

SD Blue · #23 10-01-2012, 11:05 AM

The best cleaner I've found for the engine is spray silicone lubricant. Use the cheapest stuff you can find. (That may be what WD-40 is primarily.) I read about using this in a paperback on how to detail cars and have been very satisfied with the results. It makes rubber hoses and plastic parts shine like new and does a great job of cleaning up oil residue and diesel film.

Others, on this forum, have mentioned biodiesel and kerosene. These would probably be good for major, gunky build-up but use them at a car wash. There they have sand traps to catch the residue, rather than contaminate ground water.

mach4 · #24 10-01-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

what's with the air cleaner? did you not have access to the CA setup? or did you just want hot engine air in the turbo?

I've got the CA air cleaner setup sitting in the trunk of the donor car, just no room to fit it. This picture gives a better idea of what is going on vis a vis cool air intake. The barrel of the air cleaner cover sits 98% outside the cone of the shroud of the radiator fan. It actually sits directly in the path of cool air which enters the engine compartment from outside the radiator. It's as good as it gets without actually having a cool air snorkel plumbed to the outside. Sitting still I'm going to tend to get warm air, but with any movement I'm very close to ambient.

The following post shows more detail about how I built the cleaner housing and how it is configured

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=105973&stc=1&d=1349111239

.

cullennewsom · #25 10-03-2012, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzasaurus

So much of it looks alot better. If I do clean it any more, it will be with WD-40 and a scotchbrite pad to start.

I would never have put lye on my car if I'd recognized the ingredient on the bottle..

Why not? Lye will definitely brighten Aluminum up, just neutralize it all afterwards, and coat it quickly to deal with oxidation. Don't use Lye of HF on shiny Aluminum though, unless you intend to polish it.

Don't use Mercury or Gallium either. Not that you were planning it, I just like to watch those videos.

strelnik · #26 10-04-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better

You can always pop the valvecover off and give it a light hand polish job

Lye causes the protective oxidized layer of aluminum to break down and it looks pretty bad. You just need to polish it starting with 300 grit sandpaper and you're golden

Rather than 300 grit sandpaper, I would use a wash withhot water and soap and a scrub brush, followed by Scotch brite, whether on a drill or by hand. When you get all the goobers off, then you can look at the surface and you won't hurt anything.

Benzasaurus · #27 10-04-2012, 09:41 AM

Hmmm... trust me, hot water washing is the dream! I cry in the morning when I wake up and realise I don't have one. But I live in an apartment in a larger house with no drainage anyway, so it'd just be a toy I could never play with.

From the start there have been three main concerns that have limited my cleaning options: 1) avoiding soil and water contamination, 2) needing stuff that can go on the hot engine after I've driven it to the car wash and 3) avoiding stuff that could potentially catch fire when I leave the car running while I wash it, which I do because I would be mortified if the car wouldn't start in the car wash bay. I know the last one is more a psychological issue than a car issue, but needs must when you make lots of embarrassing errors anyway (managed to flip a ramp in front of a crowd the other day—while wearing coveralls and a face shield).

I wouldn't/won't use lye because I don't know exactly how it works and I don't know what to expect when things go wrong or right. I figure, if I don't know what either good or bad outcomes would look like I ought to stay away. Since I'm totally new at this, the less variables the better. And the reason for that attitude is just the amount of conflicting and crap information I come across. I asked in a PapBoys the other night about using silicone lubricant to clean the engine because I couldn't remember precisely what SD Blue said. I don't know why I left my "I'm an IDIOT. Tell me LIES for 15 minutes" sign at home. Two guys told me that I was dead wrong—and one of them even told me WD-40 would eat my engine up because it was acidic. I had to be polite and stand there waiting until I could buy my lithium grease and get out of there. The trip was rounded out by a third PapBoy winking at me suggestively while he talked on the phone with his girlfriend. Solution: fake beard.

Benzasaurus · #28 10-04-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzasaurus

I asked in a PapBoys the other night about using silicone lubricant to clean the engine because I couldn't remember precisely what SD Blue said. I don't know why I left my "I'm an IDIOT. Tell me LIES for 15 minutes" sign at home. Two guys told me that I was dead wrong—and one of them even told me WD-40 would eat my engine up because it was acidic. I had to be polite and stand there waiting until I could buy my lithium grease and get out of there. The trip was rounded out by a third PapBoy winking at me suggestively while he talked on the phone with his girlfriend. Solution: fake beard.

Apologies for the rant above. That situation just irked me massively. Anyway, this forum has been and continues to be a shining beacon of knowledge. Thanks again for all the info and advice!

Zulfiqar · #29 10-04-2012, 02:41 PM

there is a youtube video of an old guy cleaning aluminium motorcycle parts with marvel mystery oil. Wont hurt to try that.

Benzasaurus · #30 10-04-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennewsom

Don't use Mercury or Gallium either. Not that you were planning it, I just like to watch those videos.

::runs screaming::

And I think somewhere in the back of my mind, my fear of lye comes from this video. Start at 5:11 if you're not interested in the economic history of the creamy crack (mega digression). I'd heard of relaxer but little did I know...