Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 08-23-2012, 09:59 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 54,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmalu View Post
I used the 2 hammer technique at the upper BJ and the taper shaft poped right out. It does work, I haven`t tried it at the lower BJ. I first tried to use the BJ Pickle Fork, but it is too long and hit the inside cupped area of the knuckle.

I then used the seperater tool I posted up above, and it seperated with very little effort. I relly didn`t think it was going to work, with a little pressure it would slip off, but surprised me.

Charlie
I tried the Double Hammer Method on th Upper Ball Joint with no luck. And, in fact not being able to pop it off quickle held up the Job.
I ended up making a Tool to press it off.

My preference is to have something or use a method that I know is going to work 99% of the time; something that is idiot proof and does not need any sort of skill or technique to be successful.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-23-2012, 10:34 AM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,245
I have pulled a steering knuckle 4 separate times on a W123. All the tapers came off easily by hitting the nut/stud with support, without needing any pullers except the last one, in which I could not get the taper to separate on the lower ball joint. How tight each one is seems to be variable. I agree that it is better to have one tool that works 99% of the time.

D911, I ordered the OTC-8149 from Amazon Tradervar for $19.99

Question: Does the upper ball joint have to come out first for the OTC 8149 to fit in the knuckle recess?
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-23-2012, 01:18 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 54,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
I have pulled a steering knuckle 4 separate times on a W123. All the tapers came off easily by hitting the nut/stud with support, without needing any pullers except the last one, in which I could not get the taper to separate on the lower ball joint. How tight each one is seems to be variable. I agree that it is better to have one tool that works 99% of the time.

D911, I ordered the OTC-8149 from Amazon Tradervar for $19.99

Question: Does the upper ball joint have to come out first for the OTC 8149 to fit in the knuckle recess?
Yes.
On mine the Arm that attaches to the Steering Knuckle to the Tie Rod (so the Knuckle could be pivoted back towards the rear all of the way) also had to come off as well as the Upper Ball Joint separated .

That because you need to lean back the Steering Knuckle and rotate the Steering Knuckle to one side in order to fit in the OTC Tool.
You even need to do the same thing with the Mercedes Tool but not as much because it is a smaller Tool.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post

So today I overcame My initial problem of not being able to separate the upper Ball Joint without damaging the Boot and was able to move onto the separating the lower Ball Joint from the Lower Control Arm.


Just bought the tool -OTC 8149. Did you remove the spring to pull out the steering knuckle? Im doing this project as soon as the tool and parts arrive. Im not replacing any lower control arm parts since i have no tool to remove the spring.
__________________
'85 300D Cal 280,000 miles
'14 GLK 350 60000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-25-2012, 01:48 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 54,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by my123ca View Post
Just bought the tool -OTC 8149. Did you remove the spring to pull out the steering knuckle? Im doing this project as soon as the tool and parts arrive. Im not replacing any lower control arm parts since i have no tool to remove the spring.
I did not remove the Front Spring. I just jacked the Car up enougnk to remove the Wheel. And, the jacked it enough to get the lower Control Arm on a Jack Stand and removed the Jack.

I removed the Brake Caliper, and also the Arm that Connects the Steering Knuckle to the Tie Rod.

The part that held me up was separating the Upper Control Arm Ball Joint from the Steering Knuckle without damaging the Boot. I was unable to squeeze my un-altered Tool in there.
My interpitation of what other Members have said is that if you raise both Control Arms to the same height and raise the rear to shift the weight to the Front it compreses the Front Springs enough to insert the Tool to seperate the Upper Ball Joint.
I did not want to do that and made something to do the Job.

Back to the Lower Ball Joint. After the Brake Caliper and the Arm that connects to the Tie Rod are of and the upper Ball Joint is separated from the Steering Knuckle it can be bent outwards and rotated towards the rear.
Loosen the Lower Ball Joint Nut enough that the self locking part of the not does not grip the threads or leave at least a 1/4" space between the Knuckle and the Nut. All that does is keep the Steering Knuckle from suddenly falling off when the Ball Joint separates.

The installed the OTC 8149 as in the pictures. On mine the Pointed end of the Screw Fit into center drilled hole in the Ball Joint Shaft. I don't know if all makes of Ball Joints have that hole.

The Tool circled in Red is the one I tried to use to separate the Upper Ball Joint. It might be that I could have ground the Forks wider and thinner and got the Tool to work but I chose not to do that. The Tool was $16 at Harbor Freight
The above Tool worked OK to separate the Tie Rod.
Attached Thumbnails
Lower Ball Joint Separator for W123-suspension-toolsb.jpg  
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:05 PM
Admiral Ahani's Avatar
Older = Better
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 291
I stopped buying stuff that's made in China. Mainly because I don't want to support their economy when I could instead support ours. But also because I want higher quality stuff.

I've only dealt with LBJ separation on one car. For one side, I was able to use a beefy 2/3 jaw gear puller I have. For the other side, I had to use a cutoff wheel to cut the BJ pin, and then prop up the LCA in a vice with a socket to pop out the tapered pin.

That OTC tool looks like it works really well though!
__________________
'82 300TD
'77 6.9
'75 280S
'74 280
'87 Porsche 944 turbo
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Posts: 217
I am about to do the lower BJ's in my 83 240D. Has anyone used one of these?
OEM/Ball joint/U-Joint press set with 4WD service set (27089) | Ball Joint Press | AutoZone.com
I have a similar set.

I also have one like this: Stanley Ball Joint & Tie Rod Separator - Supercheap Auto Australia
Anybody had any luck with something like this?
__________________
I choose to be happy, even when the Mercedes is being awkward, lol
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:26 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 54,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Ahani View Post
I stopped buying stuff that's made in China. Mainly because I don't want to support their economy when I could instead support ours. But also because I want higher quality stuff.

I've only dealt with LBJ separation on one car. For one side, I was able to use a beefy 2/3 jaw gear puller I have. For the other side, I had to use a cutoff wheel to cut the BJ pin, and then prop up the LCA in a vice with a socket to pop out the tapered pin.

That OTC tool looks like it works really well though!
If it is not to hard to drag it out how about posting a pic of the Puller you used and what company made it. Someone might have one and not thought of that.
I think I have a 3 Jawed one somewhere but did not think to try it.

I think the OTC one is copied from Snap-on. Snap-on makes a CJ115 and CJ119 that look the same. I don't know if the Dimensions are the same or not except that like OTC one of them is larger than the other.
I ask one of the eBay Sellers where the Snap-on one was made and He said the USA.

SNAP-ON TOOLS PITMAN ARM PULLER Compact/Intermediate 9/16" HEX PRESSURE SCREW | eBay
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Last edited by Diesel911; 08-25-2012 at 10:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:34 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 54,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiffy6four View Post
I am about to do the lower BJ's in my 83 240D. Has anyone used one of these?
OEM/Ball joint/U-Joint press set with 4WD service set (27089) | Ball Joint Press | AutoZone.com
I have a similar set.

I also have one like this: Stanley Ball Joint & Tie Rod Separator - Supercheap Auto Australia
Anybody had any luck with something like this?
The OEM/Ball Joint/U-joint press can be used to press a new Ball Joint into a 123 and 126 Steering Knuckle but I have not read of someone removing the Joint with one and it will not seperate the Lower Ball Joint from the Lower Control Arm. (I have installed Ball Joints with it. Unless you set has a Tube that matches you need to remove the Boot on the Ball Joint to install it.)
In the USA Autozone and some other Chain Part Auto Stores have a free Rental and when you turn the Press back in you get your Money Back on it.

The Stanley type tool has worked for some on the Upper Ball Joint. I have a similar one but not the same and I could not get it to fit and did not want to modify it.
However, it worked well on the Tie Rods.

The Stanley Tool may or may not work on the Large Lower Ball Joint. There is a whole buch of companies that make tools that work on the same principle. Some have choice of 2 holes where they pivot and some do not.
I am thinking it is less likely to work on an extremely stuck Lower Ball Joint.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Last edited by Diesel911; 08-25-2012 at 10:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:01 AM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,245
Received the OTC-8149 yesterday.

Question for D911:

In order to use the OTC-8149, I know you said the upper ball joint has to be separated so the knuckle can be put into a position to fit the OTC-8149. Does the spring have to be compressed with the factory spring compressor in order to fit the OTC-8149?
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:28 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Does the spring have to be compressed with the factory spring compressor in order to fit the OTC-8149?
If the upper end of the knuckle and the steering arm are disconnected, spring compression (or lack thereof) won't matter. At that point, the movement of the knuckle is restricted only by the lower ball joint and related interference.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:32 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 54,676
I did not compress the Spring with any Tool. I had lower Control Arm resting on a Jack Stand, the Wheel off, the Brake Caliper off and the Arm that connects to the Tie Rod off of the Steering Knuckle.
Removing the Arm that connects to the Tie Rod allowd the Steering Knuckle to be rotated towards the Rear more than if it was still there.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-05-2012, 12:15 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 54,676
In order to use the $17 Chicago Tool from Harbor Freight on the Upper Control Arm you need to widen the Forked part at least 1-1/16 of an inch and restore the tapered/beveled area that you cut off.
The pic on the far left is not the Uppper Control Arm and was used used just to show the side view of the Tool. The Tool would be used in a similar fashion on the Upper Control Arm but the position of the Tool would be different.

Some lube could also be used on the Forked part to keep it from grabbing the Boot as you slied in between.
Attached Thumbnails
Lower Ball Joint Separator for W123-suspension-tool-1sep.jpg   Lower Ball Joint Separator for W123-upper-ball-joint-tool.jpg  
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-05-2012, 01:21 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
Posts: 9,680
I just bought that same tool at HF, $19.99 on sale a couple days ago for $16 and then used my 20% off coupon on top of it.

Used it in PNP to pop off 3 tie rods, worked great.

Not sure if I would want to remove some meat from the fork part, seems like it would weaken it. pretty thin as it is.

3/4" Forged Ball Point Joint Separator

This tool is listed as US General as their brand. I first searched their site for tie rod and ball joint seperator. all that came up was. "Pickle Forks".
I finally went to their store and found this tool on the shelf.
then searching their part# 99849, it is not in their inventory. but typing in US General the tool comes up. weard.


Charlie
__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Last edited by charmalu; 09-05-2012 at 10:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-05-2012, 03:29 AM
Admiral Ahani's Avatar
Older = Better
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 291
Next time I have the gear puller out, I'll take a picture of it. It's actually part of a slide hammer kit. I read some older threads on separating the LBJ, and somewhere I read that once you have your press/puller tool on it, you hit the side of the LCA with a hammer and it should pop apart. That worked for me on the first LBJ on the first try, but on the second LBJ the tool would just pop off with each hammer strike. :/

__________________
'82 300TD
'77 6.9
'75 280S
'74 280
'87 Porsche 944 turbo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page