Idling your diesel for home power. - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pawoSD · #61 11-01-2012, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennewsom

How is that?

Because they are their own ground when you use a battery.

My setup would not be connected to line power in any way....I'd probably install some special outlets in a few places in the house that would only be active when the generator was running and I could just plug things into as needed.

cullennewsom · #62 11-01-2012, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Because they are their own ground when you use a battery.

My setup would not be connected to line power in any way....I'd probably install some special outlets in a few places in the house that would only be active when the generator was running and I could just plug things into as needed.

Ahh, you're talking about one of these: Home

Quote:

The UL standard for this type of inverters- UL458 does not have a requirement for a bonded neutral on the output of inverters. As long as the installation requirement of grounding the chassis of the inverter has been accomplished, loads that are plugged in will have their chassis held at the same ground potential as the chassis of the inverter and the house or RV. The only difference is that the neutral slot of the receptacle has approximately 60V on it instead of the usual 0V.Â The impact of thisÂ is minimal, since parts of wiring and equipment that are connected to the neutral side of the circuit are required by safety standards to be treated as if they were at 120VAC, since there are many receptacles that are wired backwards or 2-prong plugs that are not polarized.Â Therefore, a voltage of approximately 60VAC of the Neutral slot is not accessible to the user, and any shock hazard presented is mitigated by lack of access.Â The main safety agencies, CSA, UL, and ETL, have all approved inverters with this half-voltage on the neutral scheme.

In which case you'd be right. But, it does not follow that all inverters suffer this limitation.

daw_two · #63 11-01-2012, 11:29 AM

Okay.....I thought I would post these up as examples of old diesel generators.

This Detroit is a single phase 80KW and has the 9 (or 11 or 12) lead generator head that can be reconnected for 3phase power, etc. You have to click on the image to play the video.

Here's a much smaller 2 cylinder Lister that is rated 8KW. I don't have a video of it running though. This one might end up at my house. Still debating about getting something newer.

Stevo · #64 11-01-2012, 12:29 PM

You're always much better off with a lower RPM set up. The 3600 RPM type wont hold up long under constant use. A 1800 RPM Lister or Jimmy 71 series for example, are designed to run 24/7 and both the generator and engine are much heavier. kind of like comparing a Mercedes and a Ford Escort

For "stand by" the 3600 gen set may work fine, you sure can't beat the price.

bigblockchev · #65 11-01-2012, 09:09 PM

Consider that the amp draw on a 3000W inverter is going to be in the 250A+ range by my simple reckoning at 100% efficiency which they are not. You would need a huge battery bank to run anything for any period of time. You certainly will not be able to run this off your car battery for very long. I suspect that this makes them impractical for more than a few hours at best. If you need power for possibly a couple of days just about any form of generator is more effective. Idling your diesel car for an extended period to run the inverter might get you through in a pinch but it will have a very limited capacity as has been pointed out by others. I feel for the folks who are in the dark, wet and cold now but would like to think that they will not be spending their hard earned cash on ineffective solutions. Cheers Dan

vstech · #66 11-01-2012, 10:46 PM

how about this lister?

vstech · #67 11-01-2012, 10:48 PM

ooh ooh, I like this lister!!!

chasinthesun · #68 11-02-2012, 12:00 PM

An inverter system is usually best in short term usage,an emergency case would qualify .The only down size to a generator is keeping it long term when such emergencies arise,bad gas or not properly maintained is part of this problem.
One story I have in an inverter style setup was used by a friend back a few years ago when he was without power for weeks ,his biggest issue was the 2 batteries he had setup wasnt keeping enough stored usage.He was only running a camper out back at night for lights and tv and was out of stored power by morning .I bought a used heavy equipment battery he hooked up to his setup which boosted his storage times 2.In the end fighting the battery life and having to use his pickup as a generator for storing power via the 350 chevy wasnt very economical ,he ended up borrowing the noisest generator I have ever heard,goes to show you the other value of an inverter setup.
I own a 190d 2.2 and would love to setup this car as an emergency power use car ,what inverter and other details are recommended.I could store a battery bank while using normal daytime electricity needs ,then turn the car off for rest of the day .

ds190 · #69 11-02-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasinthesun

I own a 190d 2.2 and would love to setup this car as an emergency power use car ,what inverter and other details are recommended.I could store a battery bank while using normal daytime electricity needs ,then turn the car off for rest of the day .

I've done this with my 2.2 with a 750w inverter to power a few lights, radio, computer & modem, and cell phone chargers. I want to power a fuel oil fired water heater- I haven't figured it's draw, but I do know I need a true sine inverter, not the cheaper modified sine.

I'm going to buy a large true sine inverter, use jumper cables to connect another battery in parallel with the big diesel battery, use a volt meter to keep track of things as needed, and use it intermittently during the next power outage.

This is not meant as a 24 hour use whole house back up system, just as a way to keep the family a bit happier while "roughing it".

I will probably buy a deep cycle battery for the next gas vehicle that needs replacement, then use that deep cycle as the second battery in parallel with the battery in the 2.2.

Now, will we need to replace the stock alternator with a larger one?? Or just run the 2.2 at high idle maybe 2000rpm?

I will be experimenting. Chas, please post what you do as well.

vstech · #70 11-02-2012, 02:09 PM

750 watts is not going to tax a 90 amp alternator much, how large is your large true sine wave inverter?

ds190 · #71 11-02-2012, 02:41 PM

Thanks for asking.

Options are 1500, 2000, or 2200 watt. About 4000 watt peak. About $450 but I must buy large wires to connect to battery.

vstech · #72 11-02-2012, 10:14 PM

Hmmm
that'll kill your alternator and battery in short order with much of a load. 1500 at a generous 80% conversion is 150 amps...your 65 amp alternator will fry in short order...
I recommend at LEAST upgrading to a 150 amp alternator before attempting this.

funola · #73 11-03-2012, 10:06 AM

Has anyone researched true since wave inverters in 1500 watt steady state/ 3000 peak as to which is the best and what they cost?

FYI, a 20 cu ft 3 year old frig startup surge is 15 A for about one second, 30 seconds later another surge at 10 A for about a second again, then 2 A steady state draw (all at 115V).

michaelwoodcock · #74 11-03-2012, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Has anyone researched true since wave inverters in 1500 watt steady state/ 3000 peak as to which is the best and what they cost?

FYI, a 20 cu ft 3 year old frig startup surge is 15 A for about one second, 30 seconds later another surge at 10 A for about a second again, then 2 A steady state draw (all at 115V).

I believe you can get a capacitor to help start the fridge, I may be wrong though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo

You're always much better off with a lower RPM set up. The 3600 RPM type wont hold up long under constant use. A 1800 RPM Lister or Jimmy 71 series for example, are designed to run 24/7 and both the generator and engine are much heavier. kind of like comparing a Mercedes and a Ford Escort

For "stand by" the 3600 gen set may work fine, you sure can't beat the price.

This is very true, internal engine friction is largely dependent on RPM. Pumping losses are a function of RPM squared, and internal friction is a function of RPM, temperature, and oil conditions, and parts. A lower RPM engine can generally be regarded as being more efficient, and longer lasting, hence, many diesels outlast gasoline engines although they may be more "dirty". There are always exceptions, however.

So, I wouldn't worry about idling a diesel for home power, the force between the piston, wrist pin, and connecting rod is very low so the torque trying to rotate the piston is low, and less wear there, less force to squish the oil layer (forget the tech term) so better there, there are some potential downsides, but I can't see it doing half as much wear as driving down the highway at 70 mph

Stevo · #75 11-04-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

ooh ooh, I like this lister!!!

Oh Yah, thats a sweet one, water cooled too