New project car - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

martureo · #1 09-13-2011, 06:32 PM

I've just bought a 83 300TD for my wife that we plan on restoring. I'm still figuring out what to do immediately and making sure those ideas fit with reality.

We bought the car from someone who purchased it as a project car so as of right now the engine is bolted in, literally just connected to the engine mounts and the trans. The driveshaft has also been removed to make towing easier.

Right now the car is Champagne and we want to paint it Desert Red. I'd like to pull the engine and get the engine bay painted within the next week so I don't have to empty the bay out again sometime in the future.

So really my first question is can I remove the engine and send it to paint? Or do I need to remove the transmission as well?

I've never tackled something this big before, removing an engine from the bay and I will have experienced help.

aaa · #2 09-13-2011, 06:39 PM

I'd say pulling it out with the trans attached would be easier, since the DS is already disconnected. Plus if you tried to do engine-only I'm not sure what the transmission would be held in by, as the the front of it is supported by the engine itself.

Zacharias · #3 09-13-2011, 06:47 PM

I would suggest you leave the engine and transmission where they are and work around them to paint the engine bay, after you have pulled all the other stuff off the inner fenders, etc.

You are putting yourself in for a pile of work, just for the sake of having the engine bay match. Never been an issue for me, when I changed the colour of the vehicle....

martureo · #4 09-13-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaa

I'd say pulling it out with the trans attached would be easier, since the DS is already disconnected. Plus if you tried to do engine-only I'm not sure what the transmission would be held in by, as the the front of it is supported by the engine itself.

Yeah, that's what I was worried about.

martureo · #5 09-13-2011, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

I would suggest you leave the engine and transmission where they are and work around them to paint the engine bay, after you have pulled all the other stuff off the inner fenders, etc.

You are putting yourself in for a pile of work, just for the sake of having the engine bay match. Never been an issue for me, when I changed the colour of the vehicle....

Honestly I want to start on a clean slate having the engine bay painted and por15'ed before I start putting everything together.

I'm not pulling both outer fenders until I'm ready to have the exterior painted. I'll put por15 on the inside but that's it for now. Plus the paint shop isn't going to be too happy if I show up with an engine sitting in the bay.

compress ignite · #6 09-14-2011, 04:35 AM

Starting a "Frame Off" restoration (As Far As PAINT Goes) and Quibbling about
the Necessary Work. [No Monocoque Chassis can ever be "Frame Off"]

The Engine Bay Can never be "Concours" Re-Painted Without Removing LOTS AND LOTS more Equipment than You're Willing to Take Off.
(It'll LOOK "Cracker" [I.E. "Rattle Can, Redneck")

Repainting a M.B Lowers Value
Changing COLORS is Insane! (COST AND WORK)

Consult A Premier Paint Shop (Glasurit Paint Systems)

They'll talk you out of your Madness.

Man, You're Talking 10K to 12K USD Minimum, FOR: What YOU want!

Stretch · #7 09-14-2011, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

I've just bought a 83 300TD for my wife that we plan on restoring. I'm still figuring out what to do immediately and making sure those ideas fit with reality.

We bought the car from someone who purchased it as a project car so as of right now the engine is bolted in, literally just connected to the engine mounts and the trans. The driveshaft has also been removed to make towing easier.

Right now the car is Champagne and we want to paint it Desert Red. I'd like to pull the engine and get the engine bay painted within the next week so I don't have to empty the bay out again sometime in the future.

So really my first question is can I remove the engine and send it to paint? Or do I need to remove the transmission as well?

I've never tackled something this big before, removing an engine from the bay and I will have experienced help.

Removing the engine is best done with the transmission attached.

Here's how I removed mine (by myself)

How I took out my 1981 W123 300D (euro) non-turbo engine

You are talking about paint - before you decide to paint have a look for rust. I am one of the few (ha ha) who don't believe adverts that say "rust free w123"!

Here's how I'm tackling the rust (work in progress)

My W123 saloon / sedan old accident repair (and a bit of rust repair) thread

If you want some more information on painting well guess what I've got another one for you!

I've taken your advice and started to paint!

Engine bay paint specific:-

W123 Engine bay paint advice req'd

martureo · #8 09-14-2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compress ignite

Starting a "Frame Off" restoration (As Far As PAINT Goes) and Quibbling about
the Necessary Work. [No Monocoque Chassis can ever be "Frame Off"]

I wasn't quibbling, I'm trying to see how realistic my goals are. Taking into account where I am in life (financially) and what equipment I have.

Quote:

The Engine Bay Can never be "Concours" Re-Painted Without Removing LOTS AND LOTS more Equipment than You're Willing to Take Off.
(It'll LOOK "Cracker" [I.E. "Rattle Can, Redneck")

I was never looking for concours, but I want it to look decently close to what it's supposed to look like.

Quote:

Repainting a M.B Lowers Value
Changing COLORS is Insane! (COST AND WORK)

I'm buying it for $800, I don't think changing the color on a car with bad paint is going to lower the cost.

Quote:

Consult A Premier Paint Shop (Glasurit Paint Systems)

They'll talk you out of your Madness.

Man, You're Talking 10K to 12K USD Minimum, FOR: What YOU want!

Already consulted several professional paint shops. I'm looking to do the body work and trim myself. The shop I've picked is already willing to work with me.

They quoted me $2800 for the exterior and $350 for the engine bay. And yes, that's with the paint already chosen. (BASF)

I think the $10k+ number is the inflated one for people who don't want to do any work on the car themselves.

martureo · #9 09-14-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Removing the engine is best done with the transmission attached.

Here's how I removed mine (by myself)

How I took out my 1981 W123 300D (euro) non-turbo engine

You are talking about paint - before you decide to paint have a look for rust. I am one of the few (ha ha) who don't believe adverts that say "rust free w123"!

Here's how I'm tackling the rust (work in progress)

My W123 saloon / sedan old accident repair (and a bit of rust repair) thread

If you want some more information on painting well guess what I've got another one for you!

I've taken your advice and started to paint!

Engine bay paint specific:-

W123 Engine bay paint advice req'd

Thank you!

EDIT: And yeah, I don't trust ads either. I'm buying it from a member of another benz board. I've already seen the car in person and was only able to find a small patch of rust on the drivers fender (thank God it's only on the removable section).

I'm sure I'll find more as I dig in deeper, but at least the underside was squeaky clean.

Air&Road · #10 09-14-2011, 11:50 AM

Normally it's six of one and half dozen of the other as to whether to pull the trans with the engine or not. I lean toward leaving the transmission in place.

For THIS purpose, however, it sounds like you will pull the engine and then have to transport the car for paint. In this case I would pull the trans and engine as a unit.

My $0.02,
Larry

charmalu · #11 09-14-2011, 12:14 PM

What level of restoration are you willing to go?
What condition is the car in?
How much money are you willing to pour into the project?
The end result will be as good as the time and money you are willing to spend.

How much prep work are you going to do before sending it to the paint shop? are you going to send them the greasy engine bay and say "here it is boys, make her pretty".
You need to remove the Master cylinder and brake booster, battery tray and then you have the wiring harnesses to contend with to do the firewall.

Iam not trying to be negative here, just pointing out some things along with what other have said above.

I use a steam cleaner from time to time on the eng so it is in pretty good shape. still there is always oil vapors etc... back on 07 when I was replacing the eng. I decided to paint the engine bay after we had to make some plates to support where the eng mounts bolt to the frame. has some stress cracks around the 2 holes on ea side where the motor mounts bolt to the body. so some welding was done. removed the headlights radiator and a/c condensor.

wiped down everything with rags and solvent, washed it good with POR Marine Clean, sanded it, and painted it my self with PPG Astrial Silver. you can buy these spray kits called Prevale it`s a bottle with a pressure cylinder. mix the paint, screw on the cylinder, push the button and you are in business. works ok for small projects. I do have the big spray guns for the bigger projects.

Charlie

Zacharias · #12 09-14-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Honestly I want to start on a clean slate having the engine bay painted and por15'ed before I start putting everything together. Plus the paint shop isn't going to be too happy if I show up with an engine sitting in the bay.

Were you absolutely clear with them, when you had the estimate done, that you were removing the engine and all the accessories and wanted the complete engine bay painted?

The reason I ask is that I have "done" similar jobs on two cars in the past and I have to say that you have obtained an exceptional price based on what you are asking them to do. Cleaning and prepping the engine bay alone will take significant time.

Are you removing the interior as well? If you want to change the colour, and do the type of job that you apparently want, that is the best way to do it.

Remember that all bodyshop estimates are based on what they are able to see in plain sight at when they estimate. Whatever turns up underneath the stuff you pull out and take off restarts the calculator.

I will be interested to hear what the price "out the door" turns out to be, when all is said and done.

martureo · #13 09-14-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Were you absolutely clear with them, when you had the estimate done, that you were removing the engine and all the accessories and wanted the complete engine bay painted?

Yes. They said they would be willing to tape up some of the smaller stuff that protrudes through the firewall. I'm looking just to get the engine bay this run.

Quote:

The reason I ask is that I have "done" similar jobs on two cars in the past and I have to say that you have obtained an exceptional price based on what you are asking them to do. Cleaning and prepping the engine bay alone will take significant time.

Yeah, I think they're giving me a little bit of a leeway on this job because they know I'll be back for the body.

Quote:

Are you removing the interior as well? If you want to change the colour, and do the type of job that you apparently want, that is the best way to do it.

I'm still debating this. I'll at least have to remove the headliner and some of the interior to get the door jams, but I'm not sure if I'll remove everything to get the inside done. I plan on keeping this car for quite sometime so I'm really just painting enough to make me (and more importantly, my wife) happy. I doubt I'll care if underneath the carpet the car is a different color.

Quote:

Remember that all bodyshop estimates are based on what they are able to see in plain sight at when they estimate. Whatever turns up underneath the stuff you pull out and take off restarts the calculator.

I will be interested to hear what the price "out the door" turns out to be, when all is said and done.

I'll let you know, I know it's going to be more than $350 + $2800, but having that as a rough estimate isn't too bad. They were pretty impressed that I wanted to remove the trim and glass for them in the first place. From the looks of the work they've done and the cars in their shop they're used to people just dropping the car off with no prep work.

martureo · #14 09-14-2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

What level of restoration are you willing to go?
What condition is the car in?
How much money are you willing to pour into the project?
The end result will be as good as the time and money you are willing to spend.

Yeah, the project will take a few years. And I'm not even sure how much will go into it. I'm not aiming for perfect, rather more for "pretty good." I at least want the paint to look good. It will end up being a family trip car in the end.

Quote:

How much prep work are you going to do before sending it to the paint shop? are you going to send them the greasy engine bay and say "here it is boys, make her pretty".
You need to remove the Master cylinder and brake booster, battery tray and then you have the wiring harnesses to contend with to do the firewall.

I plan on at least scrubbing the daylights out of the engine bay and applying POR15 to the usual rusting areas. I'll be giving them the car without an engine, radiator, and everything I can remove except for a few odd bits sticking through the firewall.

Quote:

Iam not trying to be negative here, just pointing out some things along with what other have said above.

Oh I completely understand. I was looking for reality here. Like I said before I know what I want to do, but I need to make sure it's realistic.

Quote:

I use a steam cleaner from time to time on the eng so it is in pretty good shape. still there is always oil vapors etc... back on 07 when I was replacing the eng. I decided to paint the engine bay after we had to make some plates to support where the eng mounts bolt to the frame. has some stress cracks around the 2 holes on ea side where the motor mounts bolt to the body. so some welding was done. removed the headlights radiator and a/c condensor.

wiped down everything with rags and solvent, washed it good with POR Marine Clean, sanded it, and painted it my self with PPG Astrial Silver. you can buy these spray kits called Prevail (sp) it`s a bottle with a pressure cylinder. mix the paint, screw on the cylinder, push the button and you are in business. works ok for small projects. I do have the big spray guns for the bigger projects.

Charlie

I would've liked to do this myself, but time and space to paint isn't allowing it. So I'm forced to get it done professionally.

Thanks again.